Seat Switch Wire Around for Spark !

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

I bought a 14 HP Magnum I put on my brother's   1990  312 H  tractor and have had to do some rewiring for reuse .

The  seat switch on this one has three wires and I have photos of the diagrams. Most seat switches have two wires from what I have seen and owned but this one has three.

 

Green  (to lights on electronic board), black to ground, and orange to PTO  switch.

 

 

I know the safety/legal issues about eliminating the seat safety switch but I need to do on this one.

 

I get no spark to motor right now with switch not working.

 

I want to eliminate the switch and rewire to keep spark to the ignition.

 

New key switch wants to start (turns over great)  but no spark with the interrupted seat switch.

 

Any  suggestions on which wires I need to link to get spark for starting the motor and running with the PTO?

 

 

I have not linked black and orange but that may be it.

 

I just wanted to make sure I don't fry the coil in the  motor with this rewire job!

 

 

 

[oldredrider 2,547]

Tie the green and orange wires together and tape up the black wire. That should get you going Lane

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,479]

I don't understand the problem.

The 312-H used a M12 with magneto ignition and so does the M14.

 

Garry

[953 nut 51,514]

Lane, from the sound of it I presume this is a problem that did not exist prior to the engine swap. If that is the case I would play around with the PTO adjustment a little, it may not be letting the PTO switch open up. If you remove the dark blue wire from the PTO switch for testing that should remove the ground from your magneto and allow the engine to start (or at least have spark).

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

Old red rider/Paul:  I tied the green and orange and no spark! 

 

Richard may be on to something with the PTO link!  I am back at my place now so will use all the suggestions to rework on it!

Also this problem may have existed before as the 12 Magnum on this tractor was not running when my brother bought the tractor.   

 

 

yes Garry: both motors are magnum with magnetos and I could start the “new” 14 hp Magnum by crossing the posts on solenoid with no problem! Ran great.  Key switch was bad and finally had the correct one installed.  Lights , ammeter, etc work when key switch turned to run. I did not engage pto so not sure status.

 

Ps: Motor turns over when key switch set to start! 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Lane Ranger

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,479]

Just leaving the seat switch connector off the switch should allow the engine to run even if the pto switch has a problem.

 

Why is there power in the orange wire you are probing? There should never be power there.

or

Do you have the test light ground lead connected to the battery (+) to test for a ground in the orange wire?

 

Garry

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

Yes  power to the test light on orange wire Garry.

 

And (if I recall correctly)  the Seat Switch light on the dash is also on when the key is turned to run.

 

Hooking the orange and green wire together did not create spark and I still had the Seat Switch light on the dash when the key switch was turned to run.

 

Now I did not check the plug wire for spark when doing this the last time and I should have done that to confirm if I was getting it there.

But the motor would turn over fine just not seem to engage in ignition.

 

 

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,479]

Forget the green wire. It only enables the idiot light and the engine will run without it.

 

You are saying there is power in the orange wire? There should NOT be. Find out why there is and that is likely the source of the problem. Hope it has not damaged the ignition coil.

The orange wire goes to the pto switch and with the pto ON the orange wire is connected to the dark blue wire that goes to the ignition switch M terminal. M terminal should never have power in it.

 

Garry

[953 nut 51,514]

7 minutes ago, Lane Ranger said:

power to the test light on orange wire Garry.

 

And (if I recall correctly)  the Seat Switch light on the dash is also on when the key is turned to run.

I was thinking it was a continuity teat light.        Are you sure the ignition switch you used is for a magneto ignition.

The seat light (or any other test light should ONLY be on when the test switch is pushed. It is a momentary switch.

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

I think this was the hot wire light  not the continuity test light Richard.  Yes I believe I have the correct key switch.  

 

Garry:   I will do more checking this week on Orange wire  power/short etc   Also the M link on switch.  

 

I do appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions for resolving this issue!

 

 

 

[Pops 18]

Lane, I am having similar problem how did you resolve it

[953 nut 51,514]

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

11 hours ago, Pops said:

Lane, I am having similar problem how did you resolve it

I have not resolved it!  I have two different key switches,  a new  neutral switch for the shifter and I did clean the connections on the PTO switches.   I also changed the solenoid.

 

But I have not worked on this for a while  -purposely I would add!

 

 

 

[Pops 18]

After my message to you, I decided to follow suggestions from biged77 and Garry. I disconnect the blue wire from the ignition switch and it started right up. I have a new ignition switch 116338 that I am going switch out because I have to choke it down to turn off and the gauges are now not working. 

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

The blue wire to the sitch was clipped or cut to disengage?

I did not see that idea.

 

[Pops 18]

I just disconnected, the pig tail on my tractor was a mess wires were cut and some were ripped out. So until I could fix my starting problem,  I cut the pig tail off and rewired each wire separately following the guide that Gary sent me. You can cut the blue wire, do it so it is easy to reattach. I will be installing new switch later this week and I will advise you of the outcome. The blue wire goes to the magneto and also goes to the pto safety switch  and kills the spark if a ignition switch, safety switch or relay, is not working properly. My tractor is a 97 314h takes switch ignition 116338. If your starts by cutting the blue you will have to choke it sow to turn it off.

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

I think my tractor is a 1990 0 1991  312 H  but we have a new 14 HP Magnum  (from another  wheel horse)  the magnums are stand alone motors (will run with a  battery power source.

 

   So I use to start it crossing the solenoid.

 

 

Not sure my wiring and yours are the same.

 

[R. L. Addison 299]

The only purpose the battery serves is to power the starter to start the engine. The magneto has to be grounded to stop it. The ignition switch goes to ground in the "off" position.