D160 with kt17 no power

[Harris1453 1]

Hello, I just joined the wheel horse party 

I just bought a d160 kinda on a spur of the moment thing and now I may be regretting that a bit but I'm hopeful I can get some help!   The problem I have is someone through the years repowered it with a KT17 series 2 motor and I have an issue where it starts and runs pretty well but as soon as the mower gets hot it loses all power when running the mowing deck.  If I shut the deck off I have enough power to make it back to the garage.  Once cooled down it will work good again for about 15-20 mins and do the same thing.  

 

Things I have checked and did so far

1. Plugs look ok, I cleaned them and have new ones on the way but overall I don't think they look to bad

2. Cleaned the carb and adjusted to where I seems to run the best.  I will say that I can get it to run fairly smooth even when warm but not with any load on it. 

3. I found one of the spark plug wires that go to the cylinder I believe is not running correct had corrosion on the terminal that connects to the could so I clean that up the best I could.  

4. When running rough if I pull that wore off the coil I notice no real change in the motor.  If I plug that one back in and pull the other the motor dies quickly. 

 

So I am suspecting a bad coil from what research I have done but wanted to see others thoughts.  I don't currently have a way to check compression but I'm willing to get what I need to make this thing run good.    Also thoughts on this thing running with the KT17 vs original motor and if I should consider another repower of it.   I paid 600 for it and body and hydro wise all seems to be in great shape.  Also came with wheel weights and 48inch snowblower 

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for such a long first post 😁

Mike 

[pfrederi 18,689]

Could be coil failure (on one side) when it gets hot. Cheap diagnostic buy a $5 spark plug tester form Harbor Freight put it on one cylinder run it till it gets hot and see if the spark dies when you lose power then try in the other cylinder.  What spec number is the engine ...series II (spec number above 24300) are excellent engines.

 

 

Welcome to Red Square!!

[pacer 3,177]

Unfortunately your description doesnt fit anything simple. Very first thing I think of is the cyl is dead for because of a REAL problem...

 

Take the plug out and lay on the block some where touching metal and spin the motor over and see if the plug is firing, if so then change that wire and give thanks, the coil unlikely to die only on one side ... but probably that connecting rod has come loose and the cyl is toast, this is not uncommon in the twins. When this happens the crankshaft, piston and cylinder wall are usually damaged, often beyond repair.

 

 

[Harris1453 1]

Thanks for the replies!  The spec number is 24343.  One note that I am not sure I made clear in my original post is that in the first 20 mins the motor runs good enough to actually mow with.  Twice I've gotten excited and thought "oh wow I think I got it" only to be corrected a few mins later when I lose all power.  I will check the spark later when I get home for sure 

[pfrederi 18,689]

I do not think you have a serious internal issue if the engine runs well for a time.  Bad coil plug or wire when hot are hot candidates

[pacer 3,177]

OK, I'll back off on the 'bad' news, if indeed you do have sufficient power to drive the mower deck while cutting for a time then that cyl must be OK and you probably do have spark prob..... we can only hope!

[Harris1453 1]

Well, I bought a inline spark tester and the bad news is even when running rough it appears I have spark.  I pulled the spark plugs after running for a awhile and this is what they looked like after.  Sorry I'm a bit lost at this point so any help is greatly appreciated 🙏🙏🙏

[953 nut 60,074]

Have you removed the engine tins to clean your engine's cooling fins? I would replace the spark plug that is not firing to see if it is defective. 

 

[Darb1964 1,119]

The plugs don't look that good to me, you could switch the plugs in the cylinders see what that results. The gap looks wide to me. I know it sounds simple but how well is the deck greased,or maybe some other drag. I picked up a 518_h last year for parts the po told me his service guy thought the motor was blown. I got it home charged the battery fresh gas started right up smoked and cleared up when it got warm. When I tried to move it dogged down smoked bad, the parking break was stuck. The i engaged the deck same. I greased the tractor freed up the deck very little smoke. I have fixed the break , the tractor runs and works good uses some oil but a lot of use let in her

[Ed Kennell 42,044]

If I read this correctly,

It runs fine when cold

When it gets hot, it loses power and is running on one cylinder.

Both cylinders have good spark when it has lost power and is running on one cylinder.

All this tells me the one bad cylinder is losing compression when hot.

 

Pull that plug and do a compression check when cold and when hot.

Could be a valve hanging up when it gets hot.

 

[Harris1453 1]

So here is my update.

Got new plugs (autolite 25, is what they gave me) and although it starts easier and I got excited because it ran even smoother at first.  I still have the main symptoms.  

 

To recap as I try and pay more attention to what all is going on

 

Start engine cold and I can mow for about 20 mins but I did notice I have to watch how fast I change speeds on the hydro and at full speed it struggles (didn't think that was all that odd but I am not sure)   during this time of I stop mowing  I can turn the deck on and off and it sounds pretty smooth, also during this time of I rev the engine at the carb it sounds great with the deck and with out the deck on.   

 

After about 20 mins with no load the engine starts to sound rough and I noticed some black smoke out of one mufflers.  If I put a load on it will stay running but very rough sounding and no power at all.  If I try to adjust the carb in any direction it makes it worse, if I try to mess with the choke at all it wants to die.  

[Ed Kennell 42,044]

1 hour ago, Harris1453 said:

 

 

After about 20 mins with no load the engine starts to sound rough and I noticed some black smoke out of one mufflers. 

This again indicates the problem is with this cylinder.   If this cylinder's plug is firing properly as stated earlier, There must be a valve not closing properly. 

Again, please check the compression when it is cold and running properly and when it is hot and running poorly and smoking.

 

About $15 at Harbor Freight.

[Harris1453 1]

Thanks for the feedback, I am hoping to be able to stop by harbor freight tomorrow after work to get one.  I'm leaning that way as well after all the feedback on here.  I appreciate all the help so far!   

 

One question I did have, does the condenser have to be a special one for this motor?  I ask because while looking online for coil and condenser, this was at the beginning of my journey.  I see the the condenser called out for for the KT17 is two wore yet the one I have installed only has one?  

 

If it's valves and internal issues does anyone have an opinions on if it's worth working on or if I should replace? I've not ever gone further than a head gasket before, not affraid but limited knowledge as well.    What are good options to replace it with if needed?

[Bill D 2,256]

Hi,

 

Replace the points and condenser and time it with a timing light.  New plug wires wouldn't hurt.  If the points and condenser are bad they will do weird things when hot.  Check compression both cold and hot with the throttle wide open.  Read the manual online at the Kohler Engines website.  It has all the info you need.  If you switch wires on the coil will the motor run on the opposite cylinder?  I have a KT17 and it does the exact same thing but runs fine otherwise. 

 

Also,  how far are you from Sheds, NY? 

 

Bill

[Harris1453 1]

Bill,

I'm about 5 mins from sheds.  

 

And I'm hoping for some nice weather finally to be able to do these checks tomorrow.  I've not checked timing before so ill have to do some research on that 😁

[Harris1453 1]

So another update.....and yes I'm still waiting to get the compression test done.  Work has been nuts and I'm working 10hr days and when I'm not at work it's raining.  

 

So I feel really stupid in this update, I think I figured out why it was over heating and running bad when warm.  So at some point someone hooked up the choke backwards.  After getting a flashlight and looking closer I could see it was backwards.  So it was running on full choke the entire time .      So I readjusted the carb and now its running better but still isn't right and still weak under load.  I hear small popping sounds as it's running.  So now I'm suspecting a carb issue?  It sat for a few yrs with old gas before I bought it.   So I guess I'll tear that apart next and see what I can find and clean 🤞

[953 nut 60,074]

This Service Manual should be helpful. There is a section on ignition that includes timing the points. Try to stay with Genuine Kohler Points.

 

[Harris1453 1]

Finally some success!! 

I looked at the points (I know I should have sooner) and the wire from the coil was barely hanging where it connects to the points.  Also I adjusted the gap to .020 per the spec in the manual (it was at .035).  It's running like twice the tractor it was even when j thought it was running good lol.  I mowed for close to 40 mins with no major issues.  It still wants to run i with the choke half on so I'm going to take the carb off and clean.  While I'm doing that I will look for any air leaks.   But overall it's running waaaaaaaaay better. Thanks for all the help!

[Bill D 2,256]

Glad to see you found the main problem.  I would recommend installing a new, high temp wire from the coil to the points as the wire looks damaged in the pictures.  Also, install a new cover gasket and wire seal after you install the new points and condenser.  Good luck with it.

 

Bill