How many amps required to start my C 160 under normal conditions?

[ebinmaine 62,982]

Sunday evening when I went to start the Cinnamon Horse to use it for plowing I had some difficulty.

 

I closed the choke and turned it over a few times at about half throttle.

It wanted to go but then sputtered and died like a lot of engines will do in the cold.

The second time I tried it did the same thing and right at the end popped back through the exhaust a bit.

At that point when I tried to start it it kind of kicked back a bit and stop turning because the 60 amp maxi fuse blew out.

I'm thinking it may have been vapor locked and just didn't have the power to turn the engine enough to get past it.

 

Information of note:

Outside air temperature was about 30 degrees and other than a few hours in the afternoon the day before that it has been below freezing 4 quite a while up here. Day and night.

The oil in this engine is straight 30 HD non-detergent.

I'm thinking that maybe a little too thick 4 anything below freezing. 

The only other big block Kohler I have is an SG motor so I don't know what these are supposed to sound like with a starter. It sounds loud to me but it may be normal.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by ebinmaine
Correct autocorrect

[squonk 38,848]

When the starter first engages there is an inrush current that I'm sure is greater than 60 amps. If the engine hydo locked from too much fuel that high current will stay in the circuit long enough to blow that fuse. I really don't  know how many amps the starter will draw under normal conditions. I could test my C160 and report back.

[pfrederi 17,129]

No idea on amperage draw but why is there a fuse involved?  WH never used a fuse on the starter motor feed. 

You would have to have serious flooding to hydro lock an motor.

Edited March 12, 2019 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 62,982]

5 minutes ago, squonk said:

test my C160 and report back.

I would appreciate that quite a bit Mike. I'm just curious.

 

 

2 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

No idea on amperage draw but why is there a fuse involved?  WH never used a fuse on the starter motor feed.

When I built the wiring harness I put a couple fuses in for added insurance and protection.

the one in the starting circuit may have been Overkill but now that I've blown the fuse at 60 amps I'm curious to know what is really going on. Normal? Tired starter? It's all good either way but I just want to make sure I'm headed the right direction.

 

 

[squonk 38,848]

Ok Cold engine around 30 deg and 30W in the engine spark plug wire off: 135 amps on initial engagement and it settle out at 115 amps .

[wallfish 15,912]

Mmm, I wouldn't fuse the starter circuit

Change that oil to 10 30 for the winter. That 30W will pour like malassis when it freezes.

The video shows it starting and running, is that how it is now or just for reference to the sound of the starter? Sounds normal to me.

[pfrederi 17,129]

2 minutes ago, squonk said:

Ok Cold engine around 30 deg and 30W in the engine spark plug wire off: 135 amps on initial engagement and it settle out at 115 amps .

 

 

Great info!!

 

Another reason to use 4ga or heavier wire in the starter circuit.

[squonk 38,848]

Just now, pfrederi said:

 

 

Great info!!

 

Another reason to use 4ga or heavier wire in the starter circuit.

Right Paul. I upgrade every tractor I have to 4 ga. Cheap insurance and most of the tractors we acquire have the original 30-40 yr. old cables on them. That why I always say, "Replace the cables!" 

[ebinmaine 62,982]

38 minutes ago, squonk said:

135 amps on initial engagement and it settle out at 115 amps

Wow!

Thanks for checking on that. Obviously I'll be upgrading these wires.

 

 

36 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Mmm, I wouldn't fuse the starter circuit

Change that oil to 10 30 for the winter. That 30W will pour like malassis when it freezes.

The video shows it starting and running, is that how it is now or just for reference to the sound of the starter? Sounds normal to me.

It's just for reference but that is the way it stands as is.

I have not corrected the high idle situation but will at some point.

 

 

 

Those amp draw numbers are clearly something that we're going to have to remember for future reference and questions.

 

[JoeM 7,609]

EB that sounds a lot like my C145 when it starts in cold weather. I found on mine that I put it at 3/4 throttle, full choke, then crank for 5 or so seconds. Then I pause and hit it again and it starts right up. Some times I get that back fire pop too. I have 10w30 in mine.

Like Mike and guys say, those things pull a lot of amps, new heavy wiring, a good battery (I leave mine most of the time on a tender), and a good tune. Make sure your choke is closing all the way.

Remember, the more dead the battery, the higher the amps will draw on starting. It is the death cycle of a battery.

I do have a couple engines that are fussy on cold start. Like my 3hp snow blower, I have to leave it at idle and it starts fine, open the throttle on start up, no dice!

It is like a sweet spot for starting.

[ebinmaine 62,982]

7 minutes ago, OILUJ52 said:

It is like a sweet spot for starting.

Yepp

 

Noticed the same thing here.

Each one has it's own personality.

I just haven't figured out what makes this particular engine happy or angry yet...

[clueless 2,898]

3 hours ago, squonk said:

Right Paul. I upgrade every tractor I have to 4 ga. Cheap insurance and most of the tractors we acquire have the original 30-40 yr. old cables on them. That why I always say, "Replace the cables!" 

Clueless here with a wire question. Should both cables be 4 ga.?

[squonk 38,848]

Yes. All cables 4 ga.

[ebinmaine 62,982]

1 minute ago, clueless said:

Clueless here with a wire question. Should both cables be 4 ga.?

I can tell you from personal experience having had it happen my own self on my own little tractor.

 

There are people that will tell you that the ground wire can be somewhat smaller than the positive wire but I have melted a ground wire that was not big enough.

 

For the sake of safety I would say yes. Make them both four gauge.

 

[pfrederi 17,129]

8 minutes ago, clueless said:

Clueless here with a wire question. Should both cables be 4 ga.?

All starter related cables should be 4 ga in my opinion.  Battery (+) to solenoid...solenoid to starter motor ...and battery (-) to frame (or engine block if you have isolation mount I do not trust the little jumper wire from the mount to the frame to deal with starter loads)..

[cafoose 3,135]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Sunday evening when I went to start the cinnamon whores to use it for plowing I had some difficulty

I thought this was a family friendly site

[tunahead72 2,335]

I was wondering if anybody else caught that.  And now it's gone. 

 

[ebinmaine 62,982]

5 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

I was wondering if anybody else caught that.  And now it's gone. 

 

I'm usually really good about proofreading my stuff too.

Because....

I use voice-to-text technology for almost everything I do and it comes out with some really interesting phrases once in a while as you could see.

 

 

Ah well....

[cafoose 3,135]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

use voice-to-text technology for almost everything I do and it comes out with some really interesting phrases once in a while as you could see. 

So do I however, most of my posts are done on a PC. I've had a few interesting phrases come up while using voice to text on my phone also

[Lee1977 6,211]

You also need a good heavy duty solenoid the C-series came with one, but it's over 40 years old.  If it's been changed out with one for newer lawn tractors they or not worth much. Kick backs  can be caused by the timing set too high.  We ran 5 HP flat head Briggs on Go Karts with 90 thousands off set key. It ran great ( we were told you couldn't use a 90 ) but it would almost pull your arm out of joint when it kicked back.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Lee1977

[wallfish 15,912]

50 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

but it would almost pull your arm out of joint when it kicked back.

Have a little 3hp Techumseh that will do that too. A guy had it apart and think he just set the timing way off. It'll just about drag ya to ground if ya keep holding on to handle. 

[ebinmaine 62,982]

2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

You also need a good heavy duty solenoid the C-series came with one, but it's over 40 years old.  If it's been changed out with one for newer lawn tractors they or not worth much. Kick backs  can be caused by the timing set too high.  We ran 5 HP flat head Briggs on Go Karts with 90 thousands off set key. It ran great ( we were told you couldn't use a 90 ) but it would almost pull your arm out of joint when it kicked back.

Good suggestion on the solenoid there Lee. Thank you.

The one on there is a Cole Hersee brand that is new.

I was lucky enough to find it for a decent price about a year ago.

 

I haven't had time to double check the points Gap vs flywheel mark but at some point I will.

 

[953 nut 51,541]

On 3/13/2019 at 10:05 AM, ebinmaine said:

use voice-to-text technology for almost everything I do

           For some reason my phone won't do that.