Useless ammeter replacement

[formariz 11,849]

Started to replace all of the useless ammeters in all the horses that use them.Found this cool relatively inexpensive voltmeter. Its really precise and sensitive. Easy to read since its also lit during day .

[wallfish 15,918]

When that ammeter needle is shaking, that reads the engine is running. What do you mean useless?

[squonk 38,906]

A non operational charging system can still read over 12 volts. An ammeter will show a negative reading. An ammeter will show a parasitic battery drain with the key off. An ammeter will show charging current and that the regulator is working correctly as the battery voltage increases. An ammeter will aid in locating a short in An electrical system. An ammeter is not useless.

[pfrederi 17,146]

I am a simple type.  Bad Voltmeter is an irritant.  Failed ammeter is a dead tractor.....

[ebinmaine 63,086]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

A non operational charging system can still read over 12 volts. An ammeter will show a negative reading. An ammeter will show a parasitic battery drain with the key off. An ammeter will show charging current and that the regulator is working correctly as the battery voltage increases. An ammeter will aid in locating a short in An electrical system. An ammeter is not useless.

 

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

I am a simple type.  Bad Voltmeter is an irritant.  Failed ammeter is a dead tractor.....

 

 

Although you are both correct I have to admit I've never been a fan of ammeters.

A shorted ammeter can melt the vehicle it's in.

 

I connect a voltmeter in such a way that I can see if the battery is (dis)charged before starting, and being charged while running.

[953 nut 51,630]

They come in red too.     Less than $ 5.00 delivered, works good.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Round-DC-12V-24V-LED-Car-Boat-Digital-Display-Voltmeter-Meter-4Colors/272705984613?var=571839844235

[Blackhood Bill 720]

Not USA no thanks

[pfrederi 17,146]

35 minutes ago, Whnewone said:

Not USA no thanks

 

if you find a meter made here please let us know. Reality is these things are not made here anymore for a price that is even close to reasonable given what we use them for.. 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by pfrederi

[formariz 11,849]

5 hours ago, squonk said:

A non operational charging system can still read over 12 volts. An ammeter will show a negative reading. An ammeter will show a parasitic battery drain with the key off. An ammeter will show charging current and that the regulator is working correctly as the battery voltage increases. An ammeter will aid in locating a short in An electrical system. An ammeter is not useless.

I stand corrected. An Ammeter is not useless. However at least in my tractors here, with one exception they are useless. After 40 years of which many were  undoubtedly  exposed to the weather, and after extensive testing, they are not only severely inaccurate but they are also dangerous. Even the one that is still functional is really hard to read since not only needle is erratic, but it is rated too high for what tractor puts out. These tractors are not that complicated and for all intents and purposes I believe that a  voltmeter properly connected is at least just as useful.

 

Not being too concerned about the originality of my working tractors but rather their functionality I rather have a digital voltmeter that is easier to read and more precise since it is really not subjected to interpretation. I tested the ones I got against two different meters and they are dead on. There is also a type available that combines a voltmeter and an ammeter in the same unit . I may give one of those a try. The downside to them is that they are for a much smaller hole there for not being useful for the old location.

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

if you find a meter made here please let us know. Reality is these things are not made here anymore for a price that is even close to reasonable given what we use them for.. 

 

From someone who spends a lot of money and time as to avoid anything from China particularly I am in total agreement with that statement.. Specially if you are looking for a digital type. They are just not available from here.

[953 nut 51,630]

9 hours ago, Whnewone said:

Not USA no thanks

You can find the same item "Shipped" from the USA, but they are all made over seas. I would love to see manufacturing jobs come back to our shores and be able to see "Made In The USA" on everything!  

[Stepney 2,314]

Can't say I've ever had an erratic ammeter. Even the smashed, broke up 15-0-15 on my 74 Ford LGT worked perfectly and smooth. If it's bouncing, you have other issues. Every WH I had with a 15a system would show 15a charge on a low battery, and back off to around 3a running. Can't speak for any fire or durability issues here, and I've had some really beat up Horses. 

[Sarge 3,462]

The original one in my D-180 still works, most of the time and when it doesn't a simple smack will bring it back to life. It will get replaced - I just prefer a voltmeter to show the condition of the battery anyway. Actually, come to think of it - the one in the '73 16 Auto still works as well, in fact - very well. That one surprised me but that tractor doesn't seem to have very many hours on it anyway. Not really a fan of the digital meters on vintage equipment - more of a preference thing versus accuracy. I plan to pick up 2 of the more vintage looking Stewart-Warner voltmeters and go that route this summer.

 

Sarge

[clueless 2,898]

I'm replacing my ammeter with a volt meter on my c160. Positive is going to go to the A terminal (lights), is the voltage regulator grounded by the bolt that hold it to the bracket that holds it and the ammeter? Looking for a place for the ground to go.

[ebinmaine 63,086]

Just now, clueless said:

I'm replacing my ammeter with a volt meter on my c160. Positive is going to go to the A terminal (lights), is the voltage regulator grounded by the bolt that hold it to the bracket that holds it and the ammeter? Looking for a place for the ground to go.

IFF... the tractor is in very good mechanical condition the ground can go pretty much anywhere.

I have a separate ground wire for my voltmeter and a separate ground wire for my voltage regulator and a separate ground wire for my condenser. All of them going to battery negative.

[ebinmaine 63,086]

2 minutes ago, clueless said:

Positive is going to go to the A terminal

That will work perfectly fine once the tractor is started but if you want to see how the battery is doing BEFORE you turn the key you can hook the positive of the voltmeter to the positive of the coil.

[clueless 2,898]

 Eric,that was fast, I may do that with the pos, so the voltreg is grounded by the two mounting bolts? The tractor is in good shape for a 42 year tractor.

[ebinmaine 63,086]

7 minutes ago, clueless said:

 Eric,that was fast, I may do that with the pos, so the voltreg is grounded by the two mounting bolts? The tractor is in good shape for a 42 year tractor.

Yes that's correct. DC system so everything is grounded to the chassis which in turn is grounded to the engine which in turn is grounded to the negative on the battery.

 

While you're in there fiddling around replacing the gauge it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to take the voltage regulator out and clean up the bolts and the bottom base of it just a little bit and put it back together. Just a little extra insurance.

 

[pfrederi 17,146]

19 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

That will work perfectly fine once the tractor is started but if you want to see how the battery is doing BEFORE you turn the key you can hook the positive of the voltmeter to the positive of the coil.

 

 

The A terminal and I terminal (ie Coil positive) are both hot in the run position. Both will show the voltage before you crank... However only the I  (coil +) will show voltage while cranking which is a valuable diagnostic tool.

[ebinmaine 63,086]

4 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

The A terminal and I terminal (ie Coil positive) are both hot in the run position. Both will show the voltage before you crank... However only the I  (coil +) will show voltage while cranking which is a valuable diagnostic tool.

Thank you Paul. I knew there was a reason why I had decided to put that there originally.

 

@clueless I'm not sure about the acceptable low voltage level on these garden tractors but in my Automotive History we were told that if cranking voltage got down below approximately 10.5 volts the battery was questionable at best. That was the reason why I connected to the coil. 

[clueless 2,898]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Yes that's correct. DC system so everything is grounded to the chassis which in turn is grounded to the engine which in turn is grounded to the negative on the battery.

 

While you're in there fiddling around replacing the gauge it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to take the voltage regulator out and clean up the bolts and the bottom base of it just a little bit and put it back together. Just a little extra insurance.

 

Already done, thanks.

 

6 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

The A terminal and I terminal (ie Coil positive) are both hot in the run position. Both will show the voltage before you crank... However only the I  (coil +) will show voltage while cranking which is a valuable diagnostic tool.

Looks like the I terminal then, thanks.

[953 nut 51,630]

29 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

if cranking voltage got down below approximately 10.5 volts the battery was questionable at best.

Or you have a bad connection/cable that is acting as a high resistance load in series with the starter.

[Sarge 3,462]

Just in general reliability - it is a good idea to run a heavy ground to both the frame and the engine. I have a habit to use the frame grounding point as a common point to ground lights, meters and anything else that uses common chassis grounds to that same point. The same thing especially with voltage regulators - they require their case to be grounded, so I use a good quality tinned marine wire along with internal tooth stainless lock washers to run a ground wire from the mounting bolt to the central frame ground. Makes the whole system a lot more stable and keeps the charging current consistent. The heavy ground wire is installed right onto one of the starter's mounting bolts. Any lights that ground through their mounting screws, especially on parts that can move - such as the hood or rear fender pan get a ground wire added to the harness and ran into the central ground point. This all prevents issues later with corrosion and the common lack of ground issue through sheet metal parts.

 

Sarge