c-145 starter not engaging flywheel

[Kody Bob 17]

Hi guys, I just purchased a 1981 c145 automatic hydro. Got it home and tried to start it. With the hood up I could see the starter spinning but it did not sound like it was contacting anything.

 

Little about me, I was handed down my dad's 310-8. It's the first GT I learned to mow and plow snow on. Always loved it and wheel horse and finally found a good deal to add to/start my collection. I am sure I am going to run into other issuss and hope to learn more about the eaton hydro and automatic transmission. Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

[Keith of kent 46]

Sounds like the Bendix gear that engages with the flywheel is sticking. Try some penetrating spray with a long tube to get some in there. In UK we might use WD40, not sure if you guys have that or use something else. Failing that the starter will have to come off, only 2 bolts plus the power lead

[oldredrider 2,553]

Before taking anything apart, check the battery connections. They may be reversed. Starter was would run, but backwards.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,267]

Welcome to the forum.

Is your serial number 21965? Hard to read.

Click on the picture

Garry

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

Check to see if Bendix is moving freely on starter shaft. Lube with transmission fluid if not.  My fix was not so simple. My bendix was shot. They are no longer made. I robbed one off of another starter. Ebay has them too.

[Achto 28,832]

 

I have to disagree with using any type of liquid lubrication on the Bendix worm gear. I have found that this can cause damage the rubber slipper type clutch on the Bendix drive gear.

 

I would remove the fan shroud so that you can see what's going on. Engage the starter, if the gear is not being thrown forward into the ring gear then turn the starter gear out by hand & lube the worm gear with graphite powder. If the starter gear is engaging with the ring gear but is not turning then you may need a new drive gear as the slipper clutch in yours might be worn out.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Achto

[Kody Bob 17]

1 hour ago, Keith of kent said:

Sounds like the Bendix gear that engages with the flywheel is sticking. Try some penetrating spray with a long tube to get some in there. In UK we might use WD40, not sure if you guys have that or use something else. Failing that the starter will have to come off, only 2 bolts plus the power lead

Will give it a shot tonight after work, it looks like there is a shroud covering the bendix gear as well. Will remove and see if it is stuck or if it will extend.

 

59 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

Before taking anything apart, check the battery connections. They may be reversed. Starter was would run, but backwards.

 

The seller said the battery was bad but it seems to be ok.  I did hook the positive to positive and negative to negative, nervous to switch it, though I have heard that it is possible the battery was charged in reverse and has essentially changed the poles to the opposite. Is this possible?

 

47 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Welcome to the forum.

Is your serial number 21965? Hard to read.

Click on the picture

Garry

 I believe it is 21965, but it very well may be 21955. I will take a closer look tonight. Thanks for the parts diagram link, was struggling to find it on the Toro site.

 

Thanks for all of the input so far guys!

[shallowwatersailor 3,214]

First, determine if your battery is good. It should read at least 12.6 VDC fully charged. If the voltage is low, the starter motor will spin but not enough to throw out the Bendix.

[Tuneup 1,433]

Hey there, Kody,

It would make sense to remove the engine shroud so you can see the starter in action - will have to anyway if you're not going to remove the starter. Batteries do not switch polarity so just be sure that it is +12 at the solenoid with the DMM + terminal lead and the - lead to the battery (-). ALmost a guarantee that the bendix is dirty/jammed. NO heavy lubes here - like all have said, clean and WD or graphite. I used to use a teflon lube as it dries almost instantly. It's the only thing that worked on the throttle of my old Beetle. I've got a 1980 C125 / 8. That auto is a treasure!

[dells68 7,498]

19 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

First, determine if your battery is good. It should read at least 12.6 VDC fully charged. If the voltage is low, the starter motor will spin but not enough to throw out the Bendix.

To add to this, I had the same issue with my C125.  Somehow there was not quite enough ground (I’m thinking through the shaker setup). I simply ran another ground wire from the battery to one of the mounting bolts holding the starter on and it fixed the problem.  My starter was spinning, but not fast enough to kick the bendix out.  Grounding fixed that issue and she works great!

[JoeM 7,950]

Nice looking C!

I got one just like it but it has been rode hard and put away wet many times! It has been a real worker, pushes all the snow, tills in the spring, tows my trail mower over the banks, always has plenty of power.

Your getting pretty good advice. With any electrical issue check wiring, (especially) the ground, then voltage.

That tin shroud can be a booger to get off. One thing is you have to shake loose the coil and the throttle cable, just make sure you look at the placement of the throttle cable to get it back on in the right position. If all the wiring checks out, one thing is put a jump pack or jumpers to a good battery and give it a try.

If it still won't go, try going direct to the starter bypassing the solenoid.

Before you take off the shroud it maybe easer to remove the starter. Only issue is I believe the oil dipstick tube got to come off to get the starter out. Be careful not to drop the three little screws holding on the tube. (pull the dipstick out before removal)

In all my years of having these machines I have never lubed a bendix. If it is sticking the chances are the worm is worn and needs replaced. (it could be dirty but with how old it is, it should be)  Giving a shot of lube won't hurt a thing at that point

Welcome and good luck.

And......you are in the right place to get help.

Although we may disagree and have differences of techniques and opinions, there is one thing for sure, we all want to see you machine running and running well!

 

My C145A worker

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by OILUJ52

[Blackhood Bill 721]

I would start with making sure everything is clean. Dirt build up will also stop it from engaging also.

[Kody Bob 17]

I will take a look at both the battery and starter tonight when I get home. Is there anything I should double check before start up if I am able to get the starter working properly?

 

I have checked the oil in the tranny and engine. The tranny oil looks new and is at the appropriate level. The engine oil is dark but looks ok for now. The tractor has been sitting for about a year so I assume the gas is probably not in the best shape. Other than the fluids anything else I should take a look at? or should I just start it up and see how it does as-is?

 

I am planning to do somewhat of a teardown and general cleaning of everything but want to make sure it runs without major issues before i start putting a lot of time into it.

[The Gman 476]

Great lookin machine, even with the seat.  Given it sat for a year and depending on where you might want to take the shroud off anyway. Mice condos might be built in and around the cooling fins and in the shroud. Once you get the starter issue fixed a little ether in the carb. or a few dribbles of gas to get it to fire could go a long way to see if you have spark or fuel troubles.

 

[Kody Bob 17]

37 minutes ago, The Gman said:

Great lookin machine, even with the seat.  Given it sat for a year and depending on where you might want to take the shroud off anyway. Mice condos might be built in and around the cooling fins and in the shroud. Once you get the starter issue fixed a little ether in the carb. or a few dribbles of gas to get it to fire could go a long way to see if you have spark or fuel troubles.

 

 

Yes, that seat will be one of the first things to replace... I am in need of a replacement for my 310-8 as well (original Wheel Horse mid back is pretty torn up on it) was hoping to find a real Wheel Horse one but may have to get the standard Michigan one.

[JoeM 7,950]

Might want to sniff test that gas in the tank, If she smells rank DFR that baby.

Something else you may try is giving that starter a few light bumps with a chuck of wood or hammer. Sometimes the shock makes her go.

 

[ol550 830]

Nice tractor but seat cover.

[KC9KAS 4,744]

@Kody Bob I can't add any more help but I do want to say,  to 

[Kody Bob 17]

So I pulled the starter and got the bendix to move freely, put it back on along with my battery from my 310-8 and boom! Contact. 

 

One problem solved, however it appears there is still some work to be done as it would not start. 

 

I think the biggest discovery of the night was the fuel filter... It appeared dry... And in trying to disconnect it from the hose the brittle plastic broke. I'm guessing I am probably in need of some new fuel line and a filter? Would love to hear yalls thoughts. Also, what is the best way to test for spark? I believe the coil and condenser have been replaced. 

[oldredrider 2,553]

Best way to check for spark is a spark tester. About $10 at any auto parts store.

[Tuneup 1,433]

So much fun! If you want to hear it, connect the battery (+) to the coil (+), give a 1 second squirt of carb cleaner or even WD40 in the carb throat and hit the starter. If she coughs, there's a spark and you just have to clean the carb and replace the fuel line. You're almost there!

[Kody Bob 17]

10 hours ago, Tuneup said:

So much fun! If you want to hear it, connect the battery (+) to the coil (+), give a 1 second squirt of carb cleaner or even WD40 in the carb throat and hit the starter. If she coughs, there's a spark and you just have to clean the carb and replace the fuel line. You're almost there!

 

Found a good deal on fuel line, both kohler oem fuel and air filters, and kohler carb rebuild kit. I was surprised that all of this was available on Amazon for around 35 bucks... Anyway, it should be here tomorrow. Tonight I will hook the battery to the coil as suggested and see if I have spark. Thanks again for all of the advice guys.

 

Also, read a six page thread on here from a guy who was having a hard time starting his grandfathers tractor which I believe was also a C-145... Super long thread but it seems you all touched on just about everything under the sun that could keep the old girl from starting. should be able to use that to help in additional troubleshooting should I need it.

[formariz 11,994]

Definitely change entire fuel line. In addition to that if tractor sat for a long time there is a good possibility that fuel tank has a bit of water in it along with the usual crud. That tank has a "dead" section where fuel remains even when it is out of gas. Recommend taking fuel tank off and totally clean it, it is relatively easy. The little filter screen inside may also be clogged and damaged. I simply get rid of it. This way it will never clog and exterior filter is better at catching any debris anyway. This way fuel tank is always clean. Since you changing line it is also a good time to introduce a check valve right under fuel pump. It will greatly with starting tractor by not allowing pump to lose prime.https://www.amazon.com/Excelvan-0-24Inch-Chrome-Aluminium-Non-return/dp/B01C3PD06K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548881697&sr=8-3&keywords=fuel+check+valve+1%2F4

Should also reverse that condenser with wire facing down,so no water collects on top which eventually will cause it to fail.

Edited January 30, 2019 by formariz

[Kody Bob 17]

Wow, never considered adding a check valve... great idea. May be something I add to my 310-8 as well considering if it sits for a while I end up having to blow into the gas tank to get it started... Awesome!

[formariz 11,994]

1 hour ago, Kody Bob said:

Wow, never considered adding a check valve... great idea. May be something I add to my 310-8 as well considering if it sits for a while I end up having to blow into the gas tank to get it started... Awesome!

Tractors with tank under seat are problematic since gravity is working against it. When that pump loses prime you have to crank it for a considerable amount of time in order to get fuel all the way up front. I have placed them right underneath pump on some since it is a real convenient place to put it, however somewhere down the line may be better since there will be more fuel for tractor to use until pump really starts siphoning more from tank.