Let's talk about forestry and my forest's health

[ebinmaine 72,426]

As many of you are well aware Trina and I live on about 11 acres of Mountainside.

Nearly all of that is treed.

Past estimations have put it at about 70% Beech trees.

There are just a few white oak trees. The mountains across the street are actually the northern border for those in my area.

 

There is some red oak, sugar maple, swamp or rock maple, a few white pines and some poplar or popple.

Some birch of white, gray, black.

Hemlock, and then a spattering of other stuff.

 

We are going to be having a Maine Forest Ranger come out on February 9th and tour our property and ask us a bunch of questions and discuss what we will be doing with our forest.

 

What prompted this discussion in the first place is that I have no love whatsoever for white pine trees.

I don't like the sap.

I don't like the needles.

The wood itself is of no use to me.

 

We have begun burning a little bit of the white poplar this year and discovered why some people have the same feelings about that stuff.

 

What we will be mainely talking to the Ranger about is how many, if any, of the poplars and white pines we need to leave to maintain our future goals.

 

I'd love to hear what kinds of questions or comments you have and maybe what you might ask the Ranger?

Edited January 23, 2019 by ebinmaine

[cschannuth 3,817]

 We had a conservation agent tour our property about 20 years ago for the purposes of doing some light logging. His first question to us was whether our goal was to benefit wildlife or the forest or both.  We told him both and eventually did some strategic logging of the property. Since then the number of dead standing trees has been greatly reduced. 

 

 I’m sure there will be others along that will have better input then I did but I thought I would throw in my two cents. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

My opinion is your "wood lot" should be as diversified as your 401k, so as if something were to attack only a single species that you have more of then you won't lose your soil or minerals to loss of such, and pretty much what Craig said above, it should benefit both the flora and fauna.

[formariz 12,040]

Perhaps a little off topic but you mentioned not liking pines or its products, so I  have to go to their defense.

Keep in mind that there are numerous uses for pine sap, many of which  are all but forgotten nowadays but were essential a couple of generations ago. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a place where those uses were still appreciated and make use of some myself still today.

Pine needles and cones are great to start a fire if you don't have paper around.

Needles also make great mulch for weed prevention. Notice nothing else grows under a pine tree?

Pine wood itself makes great kindling too.

People in my area here spend money on "fat sticks" to start a fire in their fireplaces, fire starting tablets and all kinds of nonsense. Meanwhile many have large pine trees in their yards with needles,cones,and all kinds of small branches always falling.

Due to my profession, people have asked me that if I was only to be able to use one single species of wood for the rest of my life which one would it be.My answer is always pine. Commonly misunderstood and not entirely easy to work with believe it or not, it is the most satisfying wood to work with and I have worked with a lot of them from Macassar Ebony to Mansonia just to mention a few unusual ones.

[aghead 72]

Pine and cedar, holly are the only green foliage  in the long winter months. Green is good for wildlife and our moods (helps with the 'gray' days). Maybe cut the pine around your house and where you park and the sap/needles may be less issue. 

[ebinmaine 72,426]

6 minutes ago, formariz said:

Perhaps a little off topic but you mentioned not liking pines or its products, so I  have to go to their defense.

That is not at all off-topic and is, in fact, exactly the kind of input that I was looking for.

Thank you for taking the time to write down your thoughts.

 

I have a great appreciation and understanding of all of the uses that you have for varying types of pine trees.

I don't have any of those here because we have habits of using other materials for those other things.

IF I leave any in my Forest at all it's going to be for wildlife habitat and ecological balance reasons.

 

 

 

[JoeM 8,293]

Had a friend of mine looked into thinning a hundred acres of hardwoods. He had an expert come in and look it over. (now this was 30 years ago) I could not believe he even wanted to cut a single tree. Hunting was good and the place was beautiful. The person looked it over and said thinning will only make it better. They only cut trees with larger than 9 inch trunks at eye level.  They we selective and chose the trees with the most abundance in species. That allowed the smaller ones to take off and grow. If you go there now its beautiful and there could be another thinning. Worked out nice.

That beech wood just might pay off a couple times and the forest will be most healthy?? Curious to hear what the Range says.

[pfrederi 18,638]

Your beech maple forest sounds like a climax forest. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech-maple_forest

 

Beech is slow growing.  I think you need to calculate how many cords of wood you need every year.  The forestry guy should be able to tell you if your acreage can support that  demand over time with slow growing trees. 

[ebinmaine 72,426]

12 minutes ago, OILUJ52 said:

beech wood just might pay off

We did put some serious thought three years ago into having a logger come in. Neither one of us wanted the twelve foot wide paths throughout the forest that would be required for mechanization. I consulted a horse logger and was impressed with him but we still did not have it done in large part due to needing to clear a half acre or more at the front in the worst possible place for a landing Zone.

I would not be opposed to having a horse logger come in but we would have to create a road straight into the property good enough for logging trucks to go about 550 feet in. That's just not financially feasible given the small amount of acreage.

 

I have us and two friends that want to take wood from that lot.

 

[ebinmaine 72,426]

3 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Your beech maple forest sounds like a climax forest. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech-maple_forest

 

Beech is slow growing.  I think you need to calculate how many cords of wood you need every year.  The forestry guy should be able to tell you if your acreage can support that  demand over time with slow growing trees. 

Thank you for that link. I'll check it out.

 

That's exactly why we want to have the guy come in.

 

At this point in time we are only hoping to get six or seven cord of wood per year and we want to make sure that is doable for at least the next few years. Or... A little more?

[pfrederi 18,638]

This is Penn State date.  Tree type here are a bit faster growing than beech....  3-8 cords per acre per thinning.

 

If you have some one come in and thin you r whole lot it will be a lot more wood than you need right now..Can you store it??

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by pfrederi

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

7 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I would not be opposed to having a horse logger come in but we would have to create a road straight into the property good enough for logging trucks to go about 550 feet in. That's just not financially feasible given the small amount of acreage.

 

In my neck of the 'woods" the logger is responsible for making/maintaining his route of egress/ingress then returning it to how or close to how it was before logging, of course it's all calculated within the amount you may receive for selling your timber, but in the long term for the logger it is the cost of doing business not really on you the land/timber owner...again just personal experience with this myself years ago.

[ebinmaine 72,426]

2 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

In my neck of the 'woods" the logger is responsible for making/maintaining his route of egress/ingress then returning it to how or close to how it was before logging, of course it's all calculated within the amount you may receive for selling your timber, but in the long term for the logger it is the cost of doing business not really on you the land/timber owner...again just personal experience with this myself years ago.

I believe that's how it is here as well.

This guy was not going to be able to make enough money off of only 10 or 11 acres of trees to be able to finance putting in a road that long. Even though it was just basically a gravel path with one Culvert in it. That's a lot of loads of aggregate coming in on a truck.

[pfrederi 18,638]

I doubt that 10 aces of slow growing trees will support 6-7 cords per year long haul...But then when you get older you may not be interested in cutting your own...

 

This is a calculator on how to figure how much you have per acre in cordage....

 

https://ucanr.edu/sites/placernevadasmallfarms/files/76320.pdf

Edited January 23, 2019 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 72,426]

2 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I doubt that 10 aces of slow growing trees will support 6-7 cords per year long haul...But then when you get older you may not be interested in cutting your own...

 

This is a calculator on how to figure hoe much you have per acre on cordage....

 

https://ucanr.edu/sites/placernevadasmallfarms/files/76320.pdf

Yeah. In the long run that may very well be true. Especially in consideration that the growing season here in Maine is substantially shorter than even 9 or 10 hours south down in Pennsylvania.

 

My uncle once told me that he could pull 1 cord per acre per year forever. That was central Massachusetts.

 

Right now I have good access to about 8 of 11 acres.

 

Even if my long-term pull was only 4 cord per year that would be okay for Trina and I. The others would just have to find their own someplace else again...

[JoeM 8,293]

6-7 cord seems like a lot of BTU's (considering you use the beech wood)

Sounds like the old Wheel Horse is going to do some firewood pulling.

Hopefully the Ranger can shed some light on what's best to cut and where to cut.

[ebinmaine 72,426]

Just now, OILUJ52 said:

6-7 cord seems like a lot of BTU's

Oh YES.

Not all for us.

 

We'll use about 3.

 

 

[cschannuth 3,817]

3 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

My opinion is your "wood lot" should be as diversified as your 401k, so as if something were to attack only a single species that you have more of then you won't lose your soil or minerals to loss of such, and pretty much what Craig said above, it should benefit both the flora and fauna.

 

 I agree 100%. One thing our conservation agent did say is that soft maples are not good for the forest. In fact, back then the Missouri Department of conservation would actually pay landowners to cut down small maples and paint the stumps with a growth inhibitor to keep them from overtaking/crowding out the hardwoods. I have no idea if that is still in effect today. 

[LengerichKA88 1,883]

I’ve never done anything on that level, but, if you’re not adversed to a bit of reading, pick up a copy of “The Hidden Life of Trees” by Peter Wohlleben. 

Now I have to admit that I have not read it cover to cover yet, but I’ve learned a TON about trees that I didn’t know before. My aunt is a Master Naturalist, and when I started asking her questions about trees, she sent me this book. 

Forestry is the guys profession if I remember correctly 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by KyleLengerich

[ebinmaine 72,426]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

have some one come in and thin you r whole lot it will be a lot more wood than you need right now..Can you store it??

Just noticed this part of your reply

 

We're not going to have anybody come in except for the two or three friends that will help us cut for their own usages.

 

But as far as storage goes, that would not be an issue even if they left their own wood on our land for a few months..... Or longer.

[roadapples 6,983]

I only have about 4 acres of woodland and the emerald ash borers are thinning mine for me...

[ebinmaine 72,426]

Just now, roadapples said:

I only have about 4 acres of woodland and the emerald ash borers are thinning mine for me...

That was one of the things the Ranger and I spoke about on the phone today.

 

The ash borer is in Maine at the Border Town which is about an hour south of me. It has also been found in the far north.

 

He did tell me today that forestry people in the Upper Midwest... Michigan?? ..... have found ash trees alive and apparently resistant to that insect. Gives them hope for survival of that tree species.

 

 

[953 nut 59,785]

Two things that stand out to me would be the amount of Beech trees and the threat of the Beach Bark Disease. As much as I love the appearance of beech trees, I would have to consider them as a "Must" when it comes to thinning the forest to allow new growth.

The second consideration would be to create a fire brake of at least twelve feet along any ridge line or property line that adjoins other forested areas. We had a drought here three years back and lost a lot of forest stands that hadn't been thinned out. Fire breaks saved lots of stands by allowing the forest service to set back-fires safely.   

[ebinmaine 72,426]

9 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Bark Disease

Unfortunately almost every single one of our beech trees in this entire area has that already.

It's so prevalent that when we are in other Woods areas hiking or walking and we see a smooth beech tree we are pleasantly surprised. Sad but true...

 

 

I know next to nothing about fighting fires but the state of Maine is the most thickly forested state in the nation according to some statistics and most forests around here have no fire breaks whatsoever.

That's something I'll have to remember to ask about.

 

[oliver2-44 10,689]