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The Tool Crib

Rust removal

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The Tool Crib

Wow what a process this is. I built a 5 gallon bucket with five rods of half-inch rebar connected together and water and salt 10 hours to clean this stirrup! Cost me seven bucks! I just touched the wire wheel to it and BARE metal!  So easy!

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Edited by The Tool Crib
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AMC RULES

Being in that salt bath is going to make it flash over with rust again overnight. 

Best to get into some primer with the quickness.  

 

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The Tool Crib

 I took it out of the bucket blew it down with my air hose. And it hasn't rusted over yet that's been two hours ago now the inside of the tank might be a little different that's my next set up . 

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bcgold

Product description

 

Chemical Formula: H3PO4 Density: 98g/ml Phosphoric acid is often used to acidify foods and beverages such as carious colas. It provides a tangy and sour taste. We use Phosphoric acid to treat the by-product of biodiesel. after methanol extraction, using phosphoric acid allows a clean separation of the glycerin and soaps. If done correctly, it can yield 90% pure glycerin. May also be used as a rust remover/inhibitor. Dilute to a 25-50% concentration with water and soak rusted metal parts. Over time, rust will remove and the phosphoric acid reacts with the metal to create a rust inhibiting barrier on the metal. Be sure to use gloves! Great for cleaning residue from metals.

 

acid.png

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The Tool Crib

No mixing here . Hook it up  season to taste!!  None toxic!

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cleat
4 hours ago, The Tool Crib said:

Wow what a process this is. I built a 5 gallon bucket with five rods of half-inch rebar connected together and water and salt 10 hours to clean this stirrup! Cost me seven bucks! I just touched the wire wheel to it and BARE metal!  So easy!

IMG_5063.JPG

 

Can you go into more detail on exactly what you did and the salt mix ?

 

Cleat

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The Tool Crib
3 minutes ago, cleat said:

 

Can you go into more detail on exactly what you did and the salt mix ?

 

Cleat

I have a five gallon bucket with five one foot long rebar attached to the bucket around the  perimeter .Ran copper wire to each one of them all the way around . This is the positive connection.

Fill the bucket with water to the top of the rebar. suspend piece to be 

cleaned with wire attached and connect that wire to the negative. As far as salt amount I added about a teaspoon. As soon as I clean out the bucket on my next go around I will try and take a picture and post it 

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bcgold

You ,might want to change common table salt to washing soda in your electrolyte, our local stores do not carry washing soda which is an ingredient that I use in my smelting flux so I cook baking soda in the oven to convert it to Soda Ash.

 

Rust Removal using Electrolysis http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

 

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arm.jpg

 

 

Edited by bcgold
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bcgold

I use old computer power supply's for my electrolysis projects, this video show you how to convert one.

 

 

Edited by bcgold

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DennisThornton

Best rust removal method but often unheard-of.  

Baking soda or lye will work better.  Especially if grease and oil are present. 

The hydrogen and oxygen are a perfect ratio for "Boom!" so vent it while operating! 

And that phosphoric acid after treatment is highly recommended. Even removes light rust. 

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bcgold
1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

Best rust removal method but often unheard-of.  

Baking soda or lye will work better.  Especially if grease and oil are present. 

The hydrogen and oxygen are a perfect ratio for "Boom!" so vent it while operating! 

And that phosphoric acid after treatment is highly recommended. Even removes light rust. 

 

I agree Lye is the best know rust remover and de-greaser known to man but has to be used with caution wearing protective gear. Lye aka sodium hydroxide if in the eyes can cause blindness, serious skin burn and it also reacts violently with a number of metals.

 

Engine shops all had a hot tank at one time but I think these days due to disposal issues, lye has fallen out of favor and given way to Ultrasonic cleaning tanks with more environmentally friendly cleaning agents.

 

lye.png

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bcgold

Using salt water, below are the elements your manufacturing.

 

Chlorine gas is hard on your respiratory system and it will also harm your electrical wiring and rust all your tools and metal items inside your shop, I use a different method of generating chlorine for refining gold and platinum from spent automotive catalytic converters.

 

I speak from experience when I say it will rust all the metal in your shop.

 

electrolytic-processes-c33-heba-saey-9-6

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oliver2-44

Eric

You mentioned the fins had a hard layer of rust. This is potentially acting as an insulator slightly reducing cooling.

The needle scaler and wire brush on a hand grinder is probable your best bet.  I've uses the hand grinder and brush on the 312-8 K301 I did 3 years ago and the paint is still perfect.  If you have a needle scaler I would use an air regulator and start with a lower pressure to be easy on the fins. Maybe start with 50 psi and if needed gradually raise it to where it gets the job done. 

 

I'm thinking you could knock the hard scale of with the needle scaler then use the hand grinder wire brush to do some final cleaning.  Remember :wwp:

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jebbear

:text-yeahthat:Just want to reiterate what all others have said. Been using this electrolysis method for some time now for various stuff and really works great! I personally use the Arm & Hammer washing soda for electrolyte which I have been able to readily acquire locally at my Shop & Save grocery store. A have also previously used lye which USED TO BE readily available just about anywhere that Drano & drain cleaners were sold, and is an excellent grease AND paint remover, but is hard to come by anymore. Same goes with the phosphoric acid post treatment, but don't really know where to acquire locally it anymore. Used to be a product in automotive stores, I think it was MetalPrep or something like that which was basically just some form of phosphoric acid mixture which worked good for pre-treating prior to painting. Does anyone know where to find the gallon jugs of phosphoric acid locally these days? AND.. most importantly as mentioned by all, Extreme Caution is a must as some of this stuff and the processes can be pretty nasty and downright dangerous with mishandling and under the wrong conditions!!

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953 nut
5 hours ago, jebbear said:

Does anyone know where to find the gallon jugs of phosphoric acid locally these days?

You can find it at Ace hardware, Lowe's or HD, look in the paint section.

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tom coffey
Posted (edited)

I first heard of the electrolysis process about 25 years ago from an article in The Gas Engine Magazine. I tried it following the article that suggested common table salt. I'm still using the same process today. Grocery stores still stock large bags in my area. The last 25# bag of salt I bought was $3.99 about a month ago. The ideal mixture is about a cup of salt per gallon of water, using just enough water to submerge your parts that you want to clean. Actually the scoop I use probably holds less than a cup. It came out of a large box of laundry detergent  my wife finished. The brew can be reused several times. I usually skim off the brown, bubbly foam that forms on the surface of the water while the process is going on just to keep from getting in on the parts when getting them out or putting more parts in. I have sand blasted very few parts since discovering electrolysis. I find that the second setting on my battery charger, 10 amps I believe, and about 2 hours does the job. More salt , more amperage, or more time, doesn't seem to do any more for me. I have tried more of all, even leaving it cooking for 24 hours. All more amperage does is create more heat. More salt doesn't do anything except waste salt. I get great results as described.  I recently bought a 275 gallon plastic tote to make a tank large enough for a complete frame or tractor hood or fender. I restored some hub caps for a fancy reel mower and forgot to install them on the mower. The hung on my garage wall for 15+ years and when I took them down the back sides were still clean, shiny unprimed metal. Don't be too worried about flash rusting. Evidently being treated will  not cause  rust any quicker than bare metal exposed. You do want to clean, dry, and prime any surfaces that will be painted as quickly as possible though.

Edited by tom coffey
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pfrederi

For bigger stuff...  I use old disc brake rotors (free at most any service station) one on each end of the tank, washing soda and an old battery chargerf.  She sits on a movers dolly so I can move it about as it is a bit heavy

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stevasaurus

A teaspoon of salt in water is not going to do anything...that is not even enough to soak corn on the cob in the husk .    Electrolysis requires Washing Soda and like was said...ACE carries it    Google the process.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Baking soda is also not the thing to use...unless you bake it...and then you have washing soda.

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tom coffey

Maybe I'm in the Twilight Zone and all the parts I've cleaned for 25+ years now didn't really exist and salt doesn't work. Wonder how this episode will end?

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The Tool Crib

After all I have read here I myself am not sure which way is right . I have been using  salt and when I pull the parts out of the solution it's effortless to clean with a wire wheel. But I have not tried washing soda yet either. As soon as I can find and use washing soda I will give it a go and see how that works.

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DennisThornton

Salt and MANY others will work well, but 2 common chemicals work better.  I think baking & washing soda are most often used and recommended but lye works even better.  But there are reasons why lye is called "caustic soda"! 

Maybe better to start with washing soda. 

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The Tool Crib

Went to ace this morning and bought a box of washing soda came home stirred up a cocktail in the bucket and put in some parts.  Going to see how this works out this time around .

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formariz
Posted (edited)

Many things will work. However the function of the solution is to provide a good conductor of current for the electricity. What washing soda is and why it is better than anything else is Sodium Carbonate. In addition to that solution being the best conductivity wise is the fact that when you are finished with it and want to dispose of it you can just empty it into your lawn. There are no adverse environmental effects from it to the lawn or you. As a matter of fact due to all the iron in a used solution it is beneficial to the lawn making it a deeper green. I merely screen all the solids from it and spread it on the lawn. After all what good is then having gallons of stuff that is harm full? Just creating more work and a health hazard.

Edited by formariz
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The Tool Crib

 OK so I'm sitting here watching the water reaction in the tub cleaning some parts. I do notice there is no foam on top of the water like there was when I used salt.  I guess this is the difference between using salt and using washing soda? 

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DennisThornton

You could still get foam.  Especially if you have some greasy parts. 

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