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Bucko

1961 Wheel Horse ignition switch

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Posted (edited)

I posted this in the wrong section, and asked the mods to delete. Posting here...

 

I've got a 1961 H55D with electric start. The engine starts now by me using a shorting strap (for testing) from a battery to the post directly on the starter. Starter spins. I want to install a switch  (missing) in the hole below the steering wheel, which I believe is where the switch went. From threads I've read through, it appears this switch is difficult if not impossible to locate, but another newer style is available and can be made to work both the starter and ignition kill function? Can someone provide me with a link to such a replacement switch?

 

I also think I read that this switch has two operations, one to operate the starter solenoid, and one to kill the spark/engine from running. On the center post of the starter solenoid, a member posted a pic that shows one wire from the starter switch to the center post of the solenoid that provides a ground to operate the starter. The second wire of this starter switch would provide ground to the coil to kill spark, which I believe runs to the circuit board (???) where the diodes and other connections are? Is this correct? If so, what terminal on that circuit board?

 

Does the starter switch key move to the right to provide ground to the starter solenoid (starts the engine), springs back to center for running, and then I would turn the key to the far left to kill the ignition? 

Edited by Bucko

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You have the switch figured out. There was no battery power at the switch which is backwards to what is common today but it worked.

Do you still have the original solenoid?

If you do you can use a common and economical 6-terminal ignition switch wired differently than the norm.

Run a ground wire from the battery negative or negative battery cable to the G and B terminals. The ignition kill wire would go to the M terminal and the solenoid wire to the S terminal. You can also get a plastic insulator to hold the wires in position that plugs into the switch. I think the G terminal would be to only extra wire outside the connector.

Click on the picture

If the original solenoid ever fails you can use the same switch but would be wired as per the switch instructions with a common 3-wire solenoid.

 

Garry

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Posted (edited)

What if I have a three post switch? I bought one off of ebay, an "off-ignition-ign/start Coll Hersee 95521B Wheel Horse 4988 or 7263", as I figured the original was a 3 terminal, and so is this one. Below is a picture of its terminals.

 

I'm thinking the spark plugs coil/magneto would be grounded to one of the switch posts (off-ignition), and the ignition/start would have its post wired to the starter solenoids center post. If I'm thinking correctly, the ignition/start post is applying ground to the starter only, and no wire to the coil/magneto, as I want spark during the start sequence. Only time I need the coil/magneto for the spark plug grounded is when the key is turned to the left post to stop the engine?

 

Here is where I'm not sure...on this three post switch, the far left post would go to a connection (maybe on the circuit board with the charging diodes) that grounds the ignition coil/magneto. The far right post of this switch connects to the starter solenoid to apply ground and activate the solenoid to apply battery to the starter.

 

So what would the other (center post?) be used for? Did it get used in applications that used the switch as a battery supply to the other two terminals? So I could I just use this switch and two of its posts to make it work in my "ground only" application?

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by Bucko

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The 4988 and 7263 are for battery ignition so won't work for your application. It could be made to work for the starter if you changed the solenoid but no way to control the ignition. Click on the picture.

This switch has the Battery terminal connected to the Ignition terminal and the Start terminal with the key in the start position.

When the key falls back to the Run position the Battery terminal and the Ignition terminal are still connected.

In the key Off position none are connected.

 

Garry

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Do you still have the original solenoid? 2 large terminals and 1 small like in this photo. The one large terminal is identified as going to the battery cable. The other large terminal goes to the starter motor. The reason it is marked Bat is the solenoid magnetic coil is powered by the Bat cable internally and the small terminal is grounded by the ignition switch to activate the coil when starting. Just backwards to what became normal in 1962 and later.

Garry

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Posted (edited)

Everything you need to know about the switch for that tractor will be in this post    

The right replacement for that switch that is the closest to the original will be Cole Hersee #95510B. I don't see any available at this moment anywhere. Can you provide a better photo of the one you found showing the markings at the terminals? It is also very important if you have or not the original solenoid which is also unique to that tractor.

Below is how the 95510B is marked.

image.png.4a7af5ad765c2563c23d2be8b593fb26.png

B terminal goes to battery GROUND

S terminal goes to small terminal on solenoid

M terminal goes to rectifier board Magneto connection (center connection between diodes )

Edited by formariz

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Posted (edited)

I have the original starter solenoid. The switch I ordered (and have now asked to cancel the order) did not have any terminal markings on it. Below is the pic of its back side again. It sure looks similar to the one in post #6 above. I guess the posts are not grounded internally to the switch case, making it a "battery" type switch and not a ground type switch as post #4 states.

 

Bummer. I guess I will have to use a bush button for the starter, and use another push button switch to ground the ignition. Would like to use one switch though, and thought one was available, without taking a loan out on the house to do so.

 

s-l1600.jpg.9509f0343f9fd1909a9cb466b95398a3.jpg

Edited by Bucko

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8 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

You have the switch figured out. There was no battery power at the switch which is backwards to what is common today but it worked.

Do you still have the original solenoid?

If you do you can use a common and economical 6-terminal ignition switch wired differently than the norm.

Run a ground wire from the battery negative or negative battery cable to the G and B terminals. The ignition kill wire would go to the M terminal and the solenoid wire to the S terminal. You can also get a plastic insulator to hold the wires in position that plugs into the switch. I think the G terminal would be to only extra wire outside the connector.

Click on the picture

If the original solenoid ever fails you can use the same switch but would be wired as per the switch instructions with a common 3-wire solenoid.

 

Garry

Where can I get one of these 6 terminal switches? I'd rather do this then install two separate push button type switches to do a starter and ignition kill.

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Have added some info to the switch files.

Stens, Rotary and Prime-Line are companies that manufacture or have manufactured for them replacement parts for the lawn and garden industry.

Napa carries the Prime-Line product.

The switches we are describing here are very popular so any retailer of lawn and garden parts should have them. I just don't know who their supplier is.

Click on the pictures again to see what I added

I believe I have found an alternative to the Cole Hersee switch mentioned above. (It is used on the Snapper rear engine riders.

The mounting hole for the switch may influence your choice.

Any questions?

 

Garry

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4 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

I believe I have found an alternative to the Cole Hersee switch mentioned above. (It is used on the Snapper rear engine riders.

 

 

This would be the one below. 5/8" mounting stem.

www.ebay.com/itm/Stens-430-144-Ignition-Switch-Snapper-7018816YP/301900993715?hash=item464ab394b3:g:tlMAAOSwTA9X2GHy

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, formariz said:

 

 

This would be the one below. 5/8" mounting stem.

www.ebay.com/itm/Stens-430-144-Ignition-Switch-Snapper-7018816YP/301900993715?hash=item464ab394b3:g:tlMAAOSwTA9X2GHy

I ordered this one. It is a three post switch as seen below. I can see that one post is labeled "M", and one labeled "B". According to quest_ca's file updates, I ground the B post, and the other two will provide ground to the ignition and starter solenoid.

 

Thanks to all for the help!

 

three post.jpg

Edited by Bucko

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