953 nut 51,735 #1 Posted September 16, 2017 If you are a 520 club member and post a question be aware that only the other 21 members of the club can respond and provide input. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 26,569 #2 Posted September 16, 2017 I was wondering about that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #3 Posted September 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Achto said: I was wondering about that. matching the engine pulley in size, this would turn the pump at a full 3600RPMs. I know some other brands use a direct drive to their hydro pumps. I'm wondering if the increased RPMs would harm the Eaton pump? I don't think it will harm the pump, it will spin the fan a bit faster which should improve cooling. As I understand it, it won't make the transmission turn the wheels any faster though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #4 Posted September 16, 2017 Does this help? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elcamino/wheelhorse 9,052 #5 Posted September 16, 2017 @Ed Kennell Well Ed what ever that is , you left me behind with the first column . Can you xplain to us dummies ? 1 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 26,569 #6 Posted September 16, 2017 @Ed Kennell Here is my thoughts - If I set the speed control lever wide open and leave it alone, I can change ground speed by increasing or decreasing the engine speed. So my theory is - increasing pump RPMs should increase ground speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #7 Posted September 16, 2017 I could not confirm if the above chart applies to the eaton 1100. But if it is , it is clear this pump is designed with a max RPM of 3K and performance drops off above 3K. I can tell you that all hydraulic machines ie. boat propellers, hydraulic turbines , and pumps have a well defined safe operating range. If this range is exceeded, cavitation will occur causing a loss in performance and the possibility of severe pitting damage to metal parts near the cavitation. I would recommend calling Eaton for information before increasing the RPM of the pump. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,939 #8 Posted September 16, 2017 I have a question about the club. If I want to start a topic where do I start it? I only find club stuff if there is already a topic going. Like this one for example. I only found it because I saw it in the recent topic column. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #9 Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Scroll up, top of the page Mike... see in the header, click on "clubs"... in there, scroll over "520 Club" ...and then, the red "520 specific tab" http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/172-520-specific/ ...there you'll see the red ..."start new topic" tab. Edited September 16, 2017 by AMC RULES 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #10 Posted September 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, squonk said: question about the club. If I want to start a topic where do I start it? @Achto had posted the question regarding the pulley size change, but I was unable to reply to it because I am not a 520 Club member. I started a post and cut and pasted his question into my post so we common folks could reply. This "Club" thing has a few wrinkles to be worked out. Here is the post that I am referring to. It has been up ten hours longer than this post but no one was able to reply unless they were a "Club Member" even though it is nor a 520 only subject. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jerry77 1,218 #11 Posted September 16, 2017 It seems to me that cutting out a portion of the club members from wheel horse discussions is counter-productive...If I don't have a dog in the fight, so to speak, I can still learn and enjoy the discussion..What is the purpose of a splinter group..?... 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #12 Posted September 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Achto said: @Ed Kennell Here is my thoughts - If I set the speed control lever wide open and leave it alone, I can change ground speed by increasing or decreasing the engine speed. So my theory is - increasing pump RPMs should increase ground speed. Up to a point. It has been a LONG time since my Fluid Dynamics classes, but as I recall it when fluid speed increases there comes a point at which flow goes from laminar (in a straight line) to turbulent, at this point the turbulent flow actually apposes the applied force as seen in @Ed Kennell chart. All of us motor heads had thought that if we removed the thermostat from the engine in a water cooled engine the increased flow would provide better cooling, but it didn't because the coolant moved to fast through the radiator to allow for heat transfer to occur. But, that is the study of thermodynamics; and that can be a very heated subject. 9 minutes ago, Jerry77 said: It seems to me that cutting out a portion of the club members from wheel horse discussions is counter-productive...If I don't have a dog in the fight, so to speak, I can still learn and enjoy the discussion..What is the purpose of a splinter group..?... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 63,166 #13 Posted September 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, 953 nut said: thermodynamics; and that can be a very heated subject. ooooooooo..... that's baaaadddd 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #14 Posted September 16, 2017 8 hours ago, 953 nut said: "All of us motor heads had thought that if we removed the thermostat from the engine in a water cooled engine the increased flow would provide better cooling, but it didn't because the coolant moved to fast through the radiator to allow for heat transfer to occur." That statement is wrong, and actually is backwards. A thermostat is there to decrease warm up time and maintain a steady engine temperature in all ambient conditions, regardless of speed, or engine load. Using your statement, a vehicle might overheat if the thermost stuck open or was removed. The total BTU cooling capacity of a radiator would be the same with or without a thermostat. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #15 Posted September 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Searcher60 said: That statement is wrong, and actually is backwards. A thermostat is there to decrease warm up time and maintain a steady engine temperature in all ambient conditions, regardless of speed, or engine load. Using your statement, a vehicle might overheat if the thermost stuck open or was removed. The total BTU cooling capacity of a radiator would be the same with or without a thermostat. I know what a thermostat is for! People would remove the thermostat with the intention of gaining increased coolant flow and enhanced cooling. This was a fallacy because the flow rate would exceed laminar rates and become turbulent. What was needed to allow proper coolant flow was a restricting orifice in place of the thermostat. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,939 #16 Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Sorry Searcher but Richard is correct. They even sold different sized thermostat replacment orifices to get the maximum power out of an engine without cooking it. And I have seen engines overheat because there was no stat or orifice in place Edited September 17, 2017 by squonk 3 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOB ELLISON 2,976 #17 Posted September 17, 2017 Does that mean I can't read anything about a 520h because I don't have one now. I had a vary nice one and sold it. so I should at least be able to peek at the post. Or does that make me a has been ??? Or a wanna be has been ??? I'm confused I think I'll take a nap 3 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #18 Posted September 17, 2017 I know what a nap is for! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #19 Posted September 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, BOB ELLISON said: does that make me a has been ??? Or a wanna be has been ??? At least you owned one once, I am a never has been and probably never will be! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #20 Posted September 17, 2017 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Searcher60 208 #21 Posted September 17, 2017 5 hours ago, squonk said: Sorry Searcher but Richard is correct. They even sold different sized thermostat replacment orifices to get the maximum power out of an engine without cooking it. And I have seen engines overheat because there was no stat or orifice in place i am not sorry, you are both wrong. Back up what you say with documentation. I did large commercial HVAC service for 25 years. You people do not have a clue about heat exchangers and coolant flow thru them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #22 Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Uh...oh! Here we go! Edited September 17, 2017 by AMC RULES 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #23 Posted September 17, 2017 http://machineryequipmentonline.com/hvac-machinery/hydraulic-turbinescavitation-in-hydraulic-turbines/ https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Pump+Cavitation&FORM=RESTAB Just a sample of what can happen when a pump or turbine is operated outside it's design flow and/or pressure range. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,939 #24 Posted September 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, AMC RULES said: Uh...oh! Here we go! BBBBWWWAAAHHHHAAAAHHHAAAA!!!!!! 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,286 #25 Posted September 17, 2017 I just stumbled on to this thread and the first thing I read was about the thermostat. So.....I'm thinking thermostat on a 520!!!! When did Wheel Horse make a water cooled 520? I was thinking 'COOL'., I wamma see one. Then I read back and realized the error of my ways . I definitely agree about the no stat can overheat. It's been years but I've been there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites