How long will a WH last?

[fritz 1]

I tried to search for a thread about how long a wheel horse will usually last. I got one about a c195 and that is it. It was about the clutch nopt the whole tractor. I would like to know about how long could a Wheel horse last? Will a CRaftsman or a mtd last that long? say you had a brand new wheel horse. And a mtd at the same time. If you take care of them you mow the same amount with each. will the wheel horse out last an mtd for sure? This is for my report. but i would like to learn. I have been told if you take care of stuff it will last your lifetime. I dont think an mtd would last a life time if you polished it? Please if any one can help please tell me

Thank you

devin

[Rideawaysenior 25]

Devin,

Most Wheel Horse products that were built in the earlier years are out lasting many of the newer MTD and other "throw away" models that are made. There are many differences that contribute to this. First would be craftsmanship. Second would be the grade of material they used. Third would be the engineering involved to bring the craftsmanship and materials together. This is what produced a superior machine in my opinion. They was also very easy for the common home owner to work on with their open design and ease of use.

I'm sure that others may have opinions to support the statement. I am ashamed to say, but I do have a Craftsman GT5000 that I bought 4 years ago and I think the only reason it has lasted this long is because I hardly ever use it. I much more prefer to ride a horse.

Jack

[kpinnc 10,751]

Think of it this way Devin-

Many if not most old Ponds and RJs out there are either still going, or in the very least are in serviceable condition. The Ponds are now in their 60s, and the RJs are in their 50s. That's quite a testament IMHO.

There is absolutely nothing unusual about finding a WH from back in the early 60s that just needs the battery charged and maybe the carb cleaned before it's back on duty. Couple that with the fact that these machines were produced in one form or another through 2007, and you can see why we love them so much.

If you buy a MTD, and it lasts five years under the stress that a garden tractor is typically given, you've done well.

Kevin

[fordsonmajortom 1]

Devin

As long as you can continue to get service parts and look after them well. I can't see any reason why a 50 year old horse shouldn't carry on for at least another 50 years then its up to our grand kids to give them another 50.

Michael

[Rollerman 290]

Devin last fall I came across two 1946 Pond Lever Steer tractors....these are the first tractors Elmer Pond conceived & later went into business with his son Cecil to become Wheel Horse.

Any ways back on track...they were in sad shape with critters living in them, tires sunk into the earth & an oak tree partially envelopeing one.

I was able to use most of what was there...I had to replace the front tires, a gear, & clean the carb in a nut shell to make one run again.

Try leaving an MTD or for that matter any outdoor power equipment made in your lifetime (you are a teen right?) outside long enough for an oak tree to grow around it, chop it out, put fresh gas in it & try to use it again.

In the 40ies & 50ies outdoor power equip were crude but built incredibly durable & many still live today ready to be used...probably most are retired & kept as a hobby.

In the 60ies through the late 70ies most OPE "Not just Horse" were still being produced in a way that would outlast there owners if taken care of.

In the 80ies a lot of the OPE companies dropped out or were being bought out by other companies who cheapened them up for more profit....we were also becomeing a more disposable society.

Toro bought Wheel Horse in the mid 80ies "Help me out here experts?" & continued to build the Wheel Horse line as a heavy duty tractor just like it's linage till just a few years ago.

So yes...Wheel Horse put out a very good product that can be serviced & repaired by the owner /dealer with parts still available if he or she chooses.

They will have a much longer service life than any tractor you buy at a department store or has non serviceable parts/components

Hope this helped. :whistle:

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

Ever hear the story about my grandfathers Axe? My Grandfather replaced the handle and my Dad replaced the head!

To get to the point, I guess there is room for interpretation in terms of "last". Is it still the same tractor if you replaced the engine? What about if you replace the frame? etc etc

My 1969 Charger 12 has the majority of parts original, but not all.

I think most on this forum would agree that Wheel Horses are made "to last a lifetime" and indeed there are a number of people here with Horses that were Dad's or Grandpops.

:whistle:

[Docwheelhorse 2,560]

Hello Devin,

given routine oil changes, grease jobs and fixing/adjusting/tightening repairing any minor problems before they grow I would say a Wheel Horse will last for AT LEAST 30 years and more like 40+. There are many variables as far as how much its mowing/plowing/doing. But in general they will work and work and work and the only thing(s) that kill them are WATER--in the transmission and a lack of following my first sentence. Given all that I would say that if you did the same thing to a Craftsman/MTD/Yardman you could expect ten years before it was too tired to be repaired. The weak links being a non serviceable trans-axle---ask Sparky about his twin cylinder Craftsman GT (yes its a real Garden Tractor) that says right in the owners manual that the hydrostatic transaxle is serviced for the life of the unit and you cannot change the fluid. He mows about an acre twice a month with it so I fully expect to see it mowing 20 years down the road. But that I would consider is out of the norm.....

Good Luck and we want to see a copy of the final essay posted here!

Tony

[canam1991 2]

say you had a brand new wheel horse. And a mtd at the same time.will the wheel horse out last an mtd for sure? I dont think an mtd would last a life time if you polished it?

The wheel horse would pull the rear end out of the mtd (seen it happen) These newer tractors are all made by mtd and there frames are made from sheet metal 1/16-1/8" thick wheel horse frames are made from 1/8-3/16" steel

[BPjunk 184]

Devin,

Is this part of the same school project as the speech? If not how did you do with the speech? Did you recive the magazine I sent you? After I sent it I realized a different issue might have been better then one with my humorous stories in it.

How long will a Wheel Horse last vs a MTD?

There many servicable parts for both brands to keep them going but once fatigue gets into the unservicable parts then you have completly worn the product out. With a Wheel Horse there is no unservicable parts, I have been able to purchase any part of a Wheel Horse that it needs.

Geez when I was in school I just wrote about my 1962 Chevy.

Maybe we better add this information too. The Onan engine offered in some Wheel Horse models would commonly get a scheaduled engine rebuild at 3,000 hours and of course the tractor with proper care would still be usable. Wheel Horse used manily cast iron block engines (Tecumseh and Kohler) or steel cylindered (Onan) vs the MTD that might have steel sleeve with a cast aluminum block of which does not last as long.

I am not too sure I want to know just how many hours are on some of my Wheel Horses.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

[linen beige 14]

Devin, Your question is like asking "Which tastes better..apples or oranges?"

I say that because basically comparing an MTD riding mower to a Wheel Horse garden tractor is comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same thing.

But, in an attempt to answer your question consider these points.

The MTD products are mostly (If not all) built on "frames" of stamped steel and held together with self tapping screws. They are finished with about the lowest quality paint available. They have transaxles encased in aluminum castings and most of the pulleys, etc. are also aluminum or some other light metal. The engines, for the most part, are aluminum blocks. The higher end ones have cast iron or steel sleeves in the cylinders. They are intended for mowing and light duty towing. Some of the larger, higher end units can handle light snow plowing. Removing mower decks and other attachments can become a workout. If maintained as per the owner's manuals and not subjected to tasks that would abuse them beyond their design limits they may well last a couple decades or longer.

Wheel Horses were built (with a few exceptions) on heavy steel frames. The flimsiest metal on a Wheel Horse is the hood. These flimsy hoods are about the same thickness as the "frames" on the MTD products. They had cast iron engines. They had cast iron transaxles housing heavy duty gearing. Most of the pulleys were steel. They were intended to be used as garden tractors. You don't have to go to the high end units to find models that are more than capable of pulling a breaking plow to turn hard ground. They can handle not only snow plowing but snow blowers. They can till, sickle bar mow, chip, grade, more or less anything a larger farm tractor can handle albeit on a slightly smaller scale. All the attachments can be mounted or dismounted with ease. There are thousands of them still going strong half a century after they were built. Some of these have never needed major repairs because they were maintained as specified and not pushed beyond their design limits. And they show no signs of giving up soon. But speaking of design limits, How many MTD products do you see laden down with hundreds of pounds of extra weight to give enough traction so a snow plow can be used to push heavy wet snow or counter balance a front end loader? The MTD transaxles would not support the weight standing still. Not to mention what that would do to the stamped frame.

I have a Craftsman riding mower that was built by MTD. I bought it new in '98. It has a Kohler 15.5 hp engine on it. It has a few minor scratches from some low limbs, but no dents or rust. It fires right up and cuts the grass great. But it has had regular oil changes, proper greasing, cleaning, etc. from day one. Shortly after I bought it I tried to move an old car across the yard with it. I bent the "hitch" and didn't shake the car. I might note that the car had no engine, transmission or front clip. At the time the only Wheel Horse I had ever owned was in pieces in my basement, awaiting restoration. I remember telling my wife that it was sad the Craftsman couldn't do a fourth the work of daddy's old 4 hp Wheel Horse.

I also have, among others, a '62 model 702 (Kohler 7 hp) that sat untouched in a barn for nine years. I poured gas in it and put a battery on it and it fired right up. I have used it to mow, till, and push snow. I have also used it to excavate for a patio and regrade my yard, smooth gravel, uproot tree stumps, roll logs across the yard, push my truck out of the mud, and several other jobs that would destroy the Craftsman. This despite the fact that the original owner did his best to work her into the ground before he died. She just keeps on ticking.

In short, there is no comparison.

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I think Devin is asking these questions because rumor

has it....he wants to do some horse trading.....lol

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

Jim,

I strongly doubt your 1998 Craftsman was made by MTD. It's not the only player in this business. There is also AYP, who has been making the Craftsman, Poulan, Husqevarnas, etc., for years. They're usually a cut above a MTD.

[Operator 7]

T-Mo are you sure on the Husqevarnas are made by them? Abuddy of mine has one and it has JD brand on it. Not to get to far .

Devin just go to a Home Depot or some place that sells off brands, Sears and inspect the riders{I don't call them tractors} and you will see the difference check out front axles my WH dealer told me that one years ago, "check out the front axles" they are stamped tin plate. Just compare box mowers to the real ones Wheel Horse. Early JD's, Early Cub's before MTD. You will see.

That was my stump time, :whistle:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

Husqvarna is owned by Electrux Corporation who also owns AYP (American Yard Products), who makes the Husqevarnas, Craftsmans, Poulans and a few others. Also, Electrux also owns Frigidaire. I would like to see your buddies JD brand Husqvarna.

Under edit:

It looks like Husqvarna has pulled away from Electrux in 2005/2006. I don't know what that means in it's relationship to AYP.

[Operator 7]

T-Mo I know the snow blower he bought for it is JD I had to weld it up for him, I asked why JD on a Huskvarna? He told me the tractor is made by JD. And when I brought blower back to him he showed me the branding. I'll get a couple pictures he is about 20 miles from me so it may be a little bit, but I'll get them. This is interesting maybe it is certain ones? When you say Electrux you don't mean the vacume co. , do you?

Randy

[Brrly1 1,146]

Husqvarna even builds concrete saws. They just bought up a company called Dimas and from what I here they also own Target concrete products which I believe is a Missouri company. Sounds like they are dabbling in everything. Sorry for getting off tract. Devin these tractors which we all know and love, taken care of, I think they would even out live yourself. One horse may die, so others can live.

Burly :thumbs:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

It should read "Electrolux". Sorry, I bad. As far as I know, and I know about everything about JD's, they never made anything for Husqvarna. They did make the Scotts tractors, and the Sabre tractors, and they made the design for the Honda lawn tractors back in the early 90's. But, never Husqvarna as far as I know. :thumbs:

[Operator 7]

T-Mo you might have beat me to the punch. Tonight it dawned on me "Scotts" lawn mower. But I'm still checking, I'll call him tomorrow.

Devin I still say go and compare box store lawn mowers. To stay on topic.

Randy :thumbs:

[linen beige 14]

Jim,

I strongly doubt your 1998 Craftsman was made by MTD. It's not the only player in this business. There is also AYP, who has been making the Craftsman, Poulan, Husqevarnas, etc., for years. They're usually a cut above a MTD.

Deferring to your superior knowledge of other brands I'll say good catch! And thanks for the info.

But if the AYP products are a step up from MTD then that just makes the gap between Wheel Horse and MTD that much larger. :whistle:

[kpinnc 10,751]

After some discussion yesterday Devin, I think I have the best answer for you as far as how long a Wheel Horse will last:

We just don't know yet.

Kevin

[gd.pudge 2]

great answer! I agree.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

Deferring to your superior knowledge of other brands I'll say good catch! And thanks for the info.

But if the AYP products are a step up from MTD then that just makes the gap between Wheel Horse and MTD that much larger.

Now, Jim, I'm definitely not superior in anything, but maybe the gift of gab.

There are some AYP's that's has the same quality of the MTDs, so it would be easy to confuse them. Then there are some, and I hate to use this term when talking about AYP's but...., better quality ones. I would say there is a significant gap in even the higher quality AYPs and Wheel Horses.

[Rideawaysenior 25]

I've got a 2003 AYP Craftsman GT5000. It's a good machine and will not even compare to the Craftsman you find on the floor today. There are some major differences. As far as comparison to the Craftsman and Wheel Horse? Well, the Craftsman is 25hp with a Kohler V twin. I'd put up my 312-H against it any day knowing that the 312 would kick the Craftsmans rear up and down the street and not even flinch.

I've got a 46in two stage blower, mower deck and dozer blade for the Craftsman. The only thing the Craftsman does better in my opinion aside from take up useful horse storage space is throw snow. It only throws snow better in my opinion because the single stage on my 312 has the stubby chute.

[MaineDad 85]

It's like asking "How many licks does it take to get the center of a tootsie roll pop? - a one, a two CRUNCH" - Can't you just see the owl!

No one will ever know :thumbs:

[fritz 1]

Would almost every one here agree that the Wheel Horse 14-38 HXL's were some of wheel horses bad ideas? I dont know many other models like that but i know there was a 12-38XL. Those kinds of models are what I am talking about. I dont think they could do much work. I am going to include that in my speech that Wheel horse did make some mistakes (14-38 HXL) but they always keep the came back to the way they used to make wheel horses. Would you say that would be an accurate statement?

Thank you for all your help

Devin