ottsm 23 #1 Posted June 17, 2017 I have a 14HP Kohler engine for my Wheel Horse. I had issues with the starter not engaging and realized the two bolts that hold the starter to the engine block were loose. I tried tightening them and I cold only go so far. Next I tried backing them out and could only get so far. I'm kind of stuck in between, perhaps someone put a heli coil in them and things are just galled up, I can't really tell. I'm afraid I'll just snap the bolts off or totally strip the block out. Anyone else have this problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,907 #2 Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Have you tried soaking the bolts with something like PB Blaster and letting them sit overnight? Edited June 17, 2017 by rmaynard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #3 Posted June 17, 2017 Just WD40, I'll try some Kroil next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #4 Posted June 17, 2017 That's weird that you can only go in so far and not be able to back them out. When you go to tighten them, do they tighten up? WD40 is not a penetrate, it only displaces moisture...like if you had a cracked distributor cap. Use the Krol or some other good penetrate. If you think you will shear the bolts when backing out, and they will not tighten when going in...maybe cut some sheet metal to shim between the bolts and the starter mount...maybe 2 pieces. I am not sure I would try to back them out before trying that. Especially, if you can't see what might be going on. If the sheet metal shims do not work, then back them out and see what happens. You might have to drill them out and tap the new holes. Kelly told me about this trick a few years ago. He mentioned that I might try shimming behind the starter because of the issues that I was having, but if your starter was lose...shimming behind the mount may not be your problem. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,737 #5 Posted June 17, 2017 That's a head scratcher for sure, The only thing that cones to mind would be that a Helicoil insert was improperly installed at some time and is clinging to the bolt. I hope Steve's shim trick will get the bolts moving for you. The only other obvious option may be to drill out the bolts using progressively larger bits being sure the holes are centered and don't go too deep. Then the holes could be drilled and tapped for larger bolts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,907 #6 Posted June 17, 2017 Typically, a Helicoil is designed to not be backed out. And because they are stainless steel, rust wouldn't be holding the bolt in to a Helicoil. So I'm of the opinion that it is not a Helicoil issue. My guess is that it is just rust. I restate my suggestion that using a good penetrating oil over a couple of days, and applying a little heat will help you get the bolts out. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #7 Posted June 17, 2017 I'll try soaking it, I don't need to cut grass for another week. If I thought It wouldn't damage the starter I'd consider heating them with a torch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,737 #8 Posted June 17, 2017 Be careful with the heat, could kill the starter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,611 #9 Posted June 18, 2017 When trying to back out hte bolts, is there any gap between the starter base and engine block. That is, do the bolts come part-way out?? If so, use a small pry bar or flat screwdrive to force continuous leverage in that gap, keeping tension on the lever, as you continue to back out the bolts. That MAY provide enough tension for the remaining threads to grab hold so you can get them out. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,932 #10 Posted June 18, 2017 At least it's able to turn so try backing each one out as far as it will go, then tighten as far as it will go, back out, then tighten and repeat doing this until it comes out. Using an impact works best but they should back out and tighten up a little more each time until the rust works loose. Spray penetrating oil too. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #11 Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) There is a gap. I even thought about inserting shims until I could tighten it up but of course the problem would remain if I ever needed to replace the starter. For now I'm just going to let it soak. Edited June 18, 2017 by ottsm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #12 Posted June 18, 2017 Watching penetrating oil work is almost as much fun as watching paint dry. I would not use heat in this situation...too many things can go bad here and make the situation worse. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,611 #13 Posted June 18, 2017 6 hours ago, ottsm said: There is a gap. I even thought about inserting shims until I could tighten it up but of course the problem would remain if I ever needed to replace the starter. For now I'm just going to let it soak. I thought your immediate problem was just getting the bolts out to get the starter off. Once you get it off, the block holes can be drilled and tapped to a next-larger size.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #14 Posted June 18, 2017 What is happening is that the starter is loose and sometimes doesn't fully engage. I can hold the starter tight against the block it starts fine. But because of this I'm sure if I took the starter off the teeth are probably worn because when it doesn't fully engage the teeth slip and grind. This is why the problem needs fixed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,611 #15 Posted June 19, 2017 First....If the starter is loose, it is likely the electrical GROUND is broken and that is why it won't engage, or even make the starter run for that matter. But, when you hold it tight against the block, then it starts...as you said....right? Holding it against the block would make the ground, thereby completing the electrical circuit. Second...if the starter is loose, the starter gear will only slightly engage the flywheel gear, lending to either worn out starter gear or flywheel gear damage. Third....take the starter completely off and mount it SECURELY to the engine block. Failing that, you'll forever have issues with it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,737 #16 Posted June 19, 2017 @ottsm, you have received a lot of input and suggestions to help solve the problem. Have you attempted the wedging of the starter to try backing the bolts out or the tighten/loosen/re-tighten etc.? Give us some feedback on what has worked and what didn't. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #17 Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, 953 nut said: @ottsm, you have received a lot of input and suggestions to help solve the problem. Have you attempted the wedging of the starter to try backing the bolts out or the tighten/loosen/re-tighten etc.? Give us some feedback on what has worked and what didn't. I'm going to let it soak for a week before I try anything else. I'll post back with the results. Edited June 19, 2017 by ottsm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,737 #18 Posted June 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, ottsm said: I'll post back with the results. Good deal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottsm 23 #19 Posted June 25, 2017 Bolts are out, soaking in Kroil for several days helped as did wedging. One bolt was actually broken and I had to use an extractor. I rechased the threads and the new bolts I put in seem to hold. I'll be watching them for awhile to see if they back out. The pictures show the before and after. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,737 #20 Posted June 25, 2017 Thanks for the feedback. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites