Steering is heavy after some mods...

[mikeeyre74 289]

Hey all,

 

My question is, why is my steering feel so heavy in my 310? 

 

The background is, it's a 310-8, which I've switched up a bit. Converted the trans to hydro (which didn't affect the steering) and I've swapped over the front tires to larger diameter. I don't have the diagonal 37" deck that came with the 310 originally, I use a RD 42" on it. I took off the small front tires and the longer length J axels and swapped over the shorter J axels (drop axels?) from a doner Workhorse model and popped on some larger front tires that also came from the Work Horse 1100 series. I just hated the look of the smaller front tires. I'm comparing the steering with that of my C120 auto's and it's just super heavy to steer. I know the obvious answer would seem to do with the steering stuff I swapped, but the steering knuckles appear to be the same size and length as my 120. The only thing I can think of is the steering sector stuff... is there a different ratio for the smaller tires that were on here originally that I'm just seeing right now? 

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,992]

The steering gears and components should be the same, only the axle's and wheels were different.  Since you changed the axles and wheels, maybe check to be sure that the axle's are straight and not binding when manually turning them.  Be sure that the fan gear is greased, my 312-8 was very dry and the steering was very tight because of that.  Greasing the fan gear zerk really helped. The other thing to be sure of is the tire pressure and insuring that the tire pressure is correct.  

 

If all else fails, you can disassemble and check the entire steering assembly

 

 

[JAinVA 4,638]

The width of the 6" tire over the 8" is slightly smaller but you should not notice the difference.Grease at the proper locations may help.Be sure to grease the front wheels and spindles with all weight off of the front end.If the front tie rods are fixed then you have no options on toe in but if you have threaded rod ends then some toe in may help.I think an 1/8" will be enough.If it helps any I have 3 416 h machines that have all been serviced in the same manner and one is a bear to steer.Make sure that the tires are inflated to max pressure.If checking all the suggested things don't improve the steering effort an up grade to the 15" steering wheel  will.Hope this helps.

Edited June 3, 2017 by JAinVA

[cschannuth 3,817]

My 314-8 by far steers the hardest of all my horses. It is the newest and has the lowest hours and has been well maintained. So I'm not sure why it steers so hard. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

did you have the spindles out of axle if not drop them sand down rust if any and do  same to the axle there it slides into. i ran into this a few times with machines that sit alot

[MalMac 1,332]

All good advice in the prior post. Sometimes when you have done everything you can and it still steers hard, you might find that maybe there is something not quite aligned right causing a slight bind. I have seen parts made just a tad wrong and it causes problems. I had a front axel not bored out right and it caused problems. I saw a fan gear not cast right and it would bind up. So if you do everything that has been suggested and it's still tough, you might start looking out how things function and move together. Could be a part in there that does not play and get along well with the others.

[N3PUY 1,031]

I place a hardened machine washer between the spindle and axle housing.

Gives it something to slide on.

[mikeeyre74 289]

Thanks for the ideas. To answer some of these questions, yes, I had the spindles all out and they were all cleaned up and everything was greased on reassembly and occasionally thereafter... But I haven't lofted the front end off the ground and just tried to see how the steering works without a load on it. I'll try that when I get home and see what I can see. If that doesn't fix it up, I suppose the first few posts might indicate that these just steer hard? Just seems weird, because my c120 steers like a Caddy with one hand. It just seems odd that two similar/same machines can be so drastically different. 

[Jerry77 1,218]

1 minute ago, mikeeyre74 said:

might indicate that these just steer hard

Could be - I had a 314-8 that I bought new and maintained right and it always was hard to steer - I have a 516h with a lot of miles on it and it steers like it has power steering...????

[MalMac 1,332]

If everything is greased and functioning as it should be, these tractors do not steer hard. Granted some will take a little more effort than other but still should not take a major effort, unless you have a FEL or a two stage hanging on it. So if your having to gorilla arm it, something is a miss.

[cschannuth 3,817]

It's strange because I always lift my front end off the ground when I grease it and with the front suspended my 314 steers with almost zero resistance like my others. But when back on the ground it is noticeably more stiff. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,520]

The fan gear should have a slight clearance with the pinion gear through it's full left to right travel. You never want zero clearance as that stresses the parts and makes for increased turning effort. The adjustment is made with shims on the lower steering shaft at the rear. Adding shims pulls the fan gear back into the pinion gear on  the upper shaft.

 

Garry

[ronhatch 406]

I found my steering to be hard on my C-101 too.  To correct the problem I installed thrust ball bearings (poor mans power steering) in the spindles, replaced the 12" steering wheel with a 15" unit, played with the toe in and, of course, greased everything very well. It all helped, but it still steers hard, plus it doesn't turn as sharp compared to my 4016 Case or my B-10 AC which unfortunately, detracts from the mowing experience.

[slammer302 2,156]

The alignment of the front tires makes a difference. 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,362]

I have a 87 310-8 which I have not modified at all on the front end and it steers like a tank  compared to my 86 416-8 and my 74 C120. I have greased and checked everything and can't figure out why it steers so hard. Good luck.

[953 nut 60,339]

20 hours ago, mikeeyre74 said:

I know the obvious answer would seem to do with the steering stuff I swapped, but the steering knuckles appear to be the same size and length as my 120. The only thing I can think of is the steering sector stuff.

When ever a "New" problem crops up you need to check all the components of the last job you did.

Did it steer poorly prior to the swap? Is there good air pressure in both front tires? Have you jacked it up a bit and tried the steering to see if the problem goes away? Remove the tie rods and check each component independently. Did the tractor the parts came from steer well?

  By the way, you will need to adjust the deck to compensate for the taller tires on the front unless you also go bigger in the rear.

[DennisThornton 4,771]

I think Mike will discover the cause when he jacks the front off the ground. But maybe we could expand this topic a bit by noting all that can be done to improve the steering.  I drive my C-81 all over pushing snow and dirt & I don't complain about the steering until I've driven the Xis and hopped back on any of the others without PS. Can thrust washer bearings be added to the spindles of all the Wheel Horses?  Any other tips not already mentioned in this thread? 

[pfrederi 18,711]

14 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

I think Mike will discover the cause when he jacks the front off the ground. But maybe we could expand this topic a bit by noting all that can be done to improve the steering.  I drive my C-81 all over pushing snow and dirt & I don't complain about the steering until I've driven the Xis and hopped back on any of the others without PS. Can thrust washer bearings be added to the spindles of all the Wheel Horses?  Any other tips not already mentioned in this thread? 

You can put thrust bearings on, but you will have to grind off a bit of the axle housing (top) so the spindle will stick up enough to allow you to use the snap ring.

 

How to keep them properly lubricated would be a concern..this isn't a clean spot and dirt grit etc would stick to grease

[ronhatch 406]

  My C-101 spindles were really messed up because the PO ran it for quite awhile with bad wheel bearing. I replace them with spindles from a Jacobson that are longer in both length and height which in turn, allowed me to install thrust BALL bearing between the axle and new spindles. Ball thrust bearings are probably 3 to 4X the thickness of needle thrust bearings, but I felt because they are more enclosed, they would be less susceptible to dirt, plus the diameter of the balls are much larger then the needles which would also help ease the steering effort . The WH rims were ruined as well, so I also went with the wider rims/tires from the Jacobson. The wider tires may be a contributing factor to the heavy steering even though I maintain 20# of air pressure in the tires. This all raised the front of the tractor a little, but I  like that look. Going from a smallish 12" steering wheel to a 15" helped as much as anything, plus it's better proportioned to the rest of the tractor.  Finally, when I jack up the front end, it steers effortlessly.

Edited June 4, 2017 by ronhatch

[DennisThornton 4,771]

Wouldn't jacking the front to relieve weight on the spindles allow grease to flow over them?   

[tunahead72 2,553]

I'm no expert, but I think that's exactly the point, to get grease to enter as much of that space as possible.  Once the old grease starts coming out, you stop.  If I'm not in a rush, I usually wipe off the excess, "steer" the front wheels back and forth a couple of times, and pump in another stroke of grease.

 

[ronhatch 406]

IMO taking the weight off the spindles would allow the grease to flow and work its way in between the bottom of the axle and the top of the steering arm that is welded to the spindle which is were a good part of the friction comes from. 

[953 nut 60,339]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

You can put thrust bearings on, but you will have to grind off a bit of the axle housing (top) so the spindle will stick up enough to allow you to use the snap ring.

 

How to keep them properly lubricated would be a concern..this isn't a clean spot and dirt grit etc would stick to grease

I will be doing this on my GT-14 and plan to lubricate it then wrap with Heat Shrink Tape to exclude dirt. Only solution I could come up with.

[mikeeyre74 289]

So I just came inside from checking this all out. Withe the front end in the air, I can pretty much just flick the wheel from lock to lock with two fingers. The stock wheel horse tie rods are freely moving on the tie rod balls.  It's clearly not binding on anything. The steering wheel is a 13" diameter unit just like in the easy steering C120. So I guess there's nothing *wrong* but there's certainly some difference between the two that I can't figure out? So strange....

[953 nut 60,339]

8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

You can put thrust bearings on, but you will have to grind off a bit of the axle housing (top) so the spindle will stick up enough to allow you to use the snap ring.

 

7 hours ago, ronhatch said:

I replace them with spindles from a Jacobson that are longer in both length and height which in turn, allowed me to install thrust BALL bearing between the axle and new spindles. Ball thrust bearings are probably 3 to 4X the thickness of needle thrust bearings, but I felt because they are more enclosed, they would be less susceptible to dirt, plus the diameter of the balls are much larger then the needles which would also help ease the steering effor

Couple of good options here.