DennisThornton 4,769 #26 Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Cadmandu! You and I are starting to bond! I love your spreadsheet approach! And man have you come to the right place to learn about WHs! I was born in Cincy and obviously she hosts some very intensive WH knowledge in Brandon! You got to really struggle to get that kind of info on your own! Not even Google can do that good! When you finish your fact finding project, would you honor us with a completed, spell checked, fact checked version of your spreadsheet, please? Perhaps include some reference to this forum and it's members? I reread Brandon's reply and Man! There's a lot of good info in there! Brandon! Are Wheel Horses even allowed in Cincy now days?) The C-195's were all Eaton 1100. Seems to imply that the 1100 was top notch... The early 1980 C automatics (blackhoods) were sundstrand, late 1980 up to 1984 were Eatons. Seems to imply that the 1100 was top notch... There is no 520A, only 520H So all 520s had hydraulic lifts? 516H and 518H were eaton 700's Any thoughts as to why? Only the top dog of the 5XXs, the 520 got the 1100? Didn't know that! All the A's were usually eaton 700's except the 417A and 418A (and there are a select few of the 300 series A models that made it out as 1100's too but no definitive on that) I think the Ponds lost track of some things that "WE" very seriously track! What were the 417-418As? 1100s? Gads! How does one keep track? Cadmandu! You listening? That spreadsheet? Many sundstrands had lifts, many did not I don't know if there is a differentiating factor that determined which had which. ALL Eaton 700's had manual lift, MOST eaton 1100's had hydro lift (but there are examples of some 1100's having manual lift) More inconsistencies with the Ponds/Wheel Horses! Can you elaborate which 1100s had manual lift? Sure makes it confusing! Sure makes it interesting! Thank you Brandon for sharing! Edited October 26, 2016 by DennisThornton first grammer check... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cadmandu 67 #27 Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Thanks Brandon, That will really help me with the chart. I will print out your post in the morning and update the chart at noon. I will post it then.This will help a lot of us.I think this could grow into something that needs to have some limits and purpose. Without making anyone made I am interested in a narrow search, but for the sake of all I can expand the spreadsheet. I am trying to distinguish and list the WH's that have Eaton 1100's or Sundstrands that have the Hydro lift and the K series and Magnum's only. I will focus on that first and then expand. I would like you guys to find and fix my mistakes. I will leave out the B and D lines because they might not be the 45" wheel base. From what I read the C series and the 300, 400, and 500 series all share the same attachments. Is this correct? Edited October 26, 2016 by Cadmandu 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #28 Posted October 27, 2016 4 hours ago, DennisThornton said: Brandon! Are Wheel Horses even allowed in Cincy now days?) I sneak them in and out sometimes The C-195's were all Eaton 1100. Seems to imply that the 1100 was top notch... The early 1980 C automatics (blackhoods) were sundstrand, late 1980 up to 1984 were Eatons. Seems to imply that the 1100 was top notch... I personally think they switched mostly due to availability, but the eaton is a top notch hydro unit. There is no 520A, only 520H So all 520s had hydraulic lifts? There was that one year run of 520-8's that were gear drive and manual lift, but all 520H units had hydro lift. 516H and 518H were eaton 700's Any thoughts as to why? Only the top dog of the 5XXs, the 520 got the 1100? Didn't know that! It seems as though in 1988 and 1989 the 500 series were the only hydros in the lineup, so maybe they were trying to hit a value point? 1990 is a confusing year with the return of the 300 and 400 series hydros and still had the 518, maybe using up leftovers? All the A's were usually eaton 700's except the 417A and 418A (and there are a select few of the 300 series A models that made it out as 1100's too but no definitive on that) I think the Ponds lost track of some things that "WE" very seriously track! What were the 417-418As? 1100s? Gads! How does one keep track? Cadmandu! You listening? That spreadsheet? Yep, the 417 and 418 were 1100 units. The 418 was also available in a 418C commercial model also 1100 hydro. Many sundstrands had lifts, many did not I don't know if there is a differentiating factor that determined which had which. ALL Eaton 700's had manual lift, MOST eaton 1100's had hydro lift (but there are examples of some 1100's having manual lift) More inconsistencies with the Ponds/Wheel Horses! Can you elaborate which 1100s had manual lift? Sure makes it confusing! Sure makes it interesting! I don't remember, but I remember at one point thinking all 1100's had hydro lift, but then there were a few people the showed me examples of factory machines without lift. Thank you Brandon for sharing! That's what this place is all about! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,503 #29 Posted October 27, 2016 Many models that got the Eaton 700 for the North American market got the Eaton 1100 when exported. Each had their own model number. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,147 #30 Posted October 27, 2016 With the older units (Sundstrand era) the lift was only standard on Electros and C-160 (Not sure about the no name year in between). However it was an option on other models e.g. C-120, Chargers so you cannot be sure by model number if it will have it. Also over the years people have added the lift to some machines. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cadmandu 67 #31 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Here you go please review and fix. Hydro Lifts Eaton and Sunstrand Year Model Engine Transmission Notes 1972 Charger 12 K301S Sundstrand 1972 Bronco 14 K321S Sundstrand 72/73 GT-14 K321S Sundstrand 74/75/76/77 C-120 K301S Sundstrand 74/75/76/77 C-160 K341S Sundstrand 78/79 C-121 K301AS Sundstrand 78/79 C-141 K321AS Sundstrand 78/79 C-161 K341AS Sundstrand 80/81 C-125 K301AS Eaton 80 had either 80/81 C-145 K321AS Eaton 80/81 C-165 K341AS Eaton 80 had a Sunstrand 82/83 C-145 K321AS Eaton 84 C-145 K321AS Eaton 85 314-H K321S Eaton hydro-static transmission and hydraulic lift B and C Series.pdf Hydro Lifts Eaton and Sunstrand.xlsx Hydro Lifts Eaton and Sunstrand.xlsx Hydros.docx Edited October 27, 2016 by Cadmandu 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 3,462 #32 Posted October 30, 2016 It is very common to see a lift installed on the Sundstrands in 1277's , Chargers , Electros and such since those models were 1 step below the uber-expensive GT14 at the time . I will say this about the Sundstrands - whatever oil is currently in it - stick with that oil . Most of the older pre-'73's used Dextron , later models used 10W30 motor oil . Also , if you get an older Sundstrand or are looking at an older tractor equipped with one , make sure to let it get to full operating temperature and then see if reverse is weak - like backing it up a solid hill . It's a common issue for those units to be old, abused and still have the original oil/filter so the swash plate can be damaged or just plain worn out . Parts for those pumps are not easy nor cheap - most pump rebuilds run right around $1,000+ if it's even rebuildable - scored housings are a no-go . Installing a lift is easy , if you can find the cone, spring and shims to allow the outlets for the hydraulic lines to function . Also, the fittings for those lines are a bit odd sized and small - if I remember they are -2AN type . Best to find one with it installed for sure . Chargers used a 10-pinion rear end and are more vulnerable to breaking the pinion gears if abused . They do act like a limited slip due to the force required for differential operation versus the early 2-pinion automotive style (models like the 1277/877, ect) and later 8-pinion gear differentials . The 8-pinion is the strongest design and pretty bulletproof . I've worked my 2-pinion to death and pretty well abused it with extreme rear wheel weight , ags and chains (145lbs , each rear tire) . The diff is still fine , but the frame has broken twice now at the rear mounting point for the transmission so it's getting totally rebuilt next year . My opinion - 8sp for extreme duty , later model Sundstrand w/lift or the Eaton 1100 setup . All can be pretty much interchanged with knowing the right combination of parts to fit the frame type . All long wheelbase units are easily adapted . D's are a whole different animal , and a seriously built animal at that . I do love the idea of fully separate front/rear lifts , option of a 3pt rear and a frame designed like a tank . Sarge 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Forest Road 594 #33 Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) To keep it simple if you're shopping for a later model w an Eaton. The 1100s had hydro filters and hydro lifts. Eaton 700s had a tiny reservoir, no filter or hydro lift. To keep it simple save yourself some headaches just be patient and shop for an Xi series. They all had hi/lo neutral trans and hydro lift. Some even had power steering which is a huge bonus! Edited October 31, 2016 by Forest Road 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #34 Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, Forest Road said: To keep it simple if you're shopping for a later model w an Eaton. The 1100s had hydro filters and hydro lifts. Eaton 700s had a tiny reservoir, no filter or hydro lift. To keep it simple save yourself some headaches just be patient and shop for an do series. They all had hi/lol neutral trans and hydro lift. Some even had power steering which is a huge bonus! xi series? those letters are close on the keyboard to 'do'... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Forest Road 594 #35 Posted October 31, 2016 8 hours ago, bmsgaffer said: xi series? those letters are close on the keyboard to 'do'... Gee thanks.... you shouldn't have 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
