wow , these tractors are..........different

[Adam Bish 34]

29 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

 

This has been discussed before but with you being a newbie to this forum and Wheel Horses I'll summarize again. I lived just 15 miles outside of South Bend for 45 years and when Toro bought them as well as when they moved the plant out. Being a major employer in the area it created quite a fuss. Toro tried to calm folks by saying they wouldn't change the name or move the plant. Their intent was mainly for marketing purposes. Let's face it, Wheel Horse was pretty bad at marketing and we continue to see the results. I have to give them credit. They did try. The decision to move the plant didn't sit well with folks but the bottom line is that it was a business decision that they had to make. When the decided to stop production in 2007 again, it was  business decision they had to make. We live in a throw away society today and people are willing to pay for the junk that's sold at the big box stores because of the price point and then replace it a few years later. Why spend $5k when they could spend a third of that? Quality just doesn't seem to matter anymore. They also didn't have the financial support that the farming line offered John Deere. What they did do was keep the design as it was and maintained interchangeability of attachments and many parts over the decades. Many parts are still available new and what isn't can be found with just a little leg work.

I have been on Wheel horses since 1960 and to this day I have a passion for them. Their design is second to none and has been so since I first sat my butt on one at the age of 5. They are as durable and anything made and when they do need repairs it is simple and yes, the parts are out there if you just look. Without seeing it I can't pinpoint what is causing your sloppy steering but I can assure you it's a simple fix if you know what to do. Take the time to look around here and you'll get all the information you'll ever need. The steering on my 1960 and 1968 are probably tighter than they were when they rolled out of South bend. My cost? Minimal because i knew how to fix the original parts. I hate to say it but at this point I think it needs to be said. You come on here basically slamming Wheel Horses. Dozens of members here rush to help out in any way they can but that approach understandably make us reluctant. Maybe you didn't intend to come across as you did or maybe it just hit me wrong but that's the way it sounded to me. Yes, these tractors are different. But to us here we wouldn't want it any other way. That difference is what make Wheel horses the fine machines that they are.

With that said, good luck on your C-160 and keep us posted.

yes it is just you i guess, if you read any and all of my posts. you will see i did not SLAM anything. you are just another perfect example of the ever-growing population of thin-skinned americans. i assure you my tractor will turn out just as fine as the 50+ others i have restored. good day to you.

mods please lock or delete this thread so no more feathers get ruffeled. i will refrain from posting here any further.

[CasualObserver 3,410]

I don't think feathers are ruffled... it's just a discussion.  You asked about price point... Wheel Horse prices and marketing were very comparable to John Deere and Cub Cadet back in the day. Even some old Cub Cadet salesman literature I've seen shows some of the arguments a salesman could make to talk a customer into a Cub over a Wheel Horse. Here's an example from the 1968 literature.

 

 

 

 Wheel Horse was a larger name in the garden tractor market back in the day, because yes, they were one of the earlier names. The first Pond tractor (the predecessor to the Wheel Horse) was made in 1946. Whether or not they are the actual first, is always debateable. There were others out there such as Shaw, Red E, Page and Speeedex. Cecil Pond is typically credited with "inventing" the modern day riding lawn mower. The crudeness or simplicity of the design is because it was evolved from machines built by hand in a garage in South Bend. They didn't come from the engineering department of an agriculture dealer. They were designed to be owned and serviced by common homeowners, with common tools.

 

I'd encourage anyone new to Wheel Horse and with a true love of garden tractors to read Straight From the Horse's Mouth, The Wheel Horse Story. http://wheelhorsestory.com/  It's a bit pricey for a book, but it is privately published. (no personal benefit to me in this plug....)  The author is also a member here, who became friends with Cecil Pond, and was given access to be able to document the history of the company. It's truly a unique book.

 

You'll always generate an argument here whether or not Toro killed Wheel Horse, and the downfall of the name toward the end. No one "wins" this argument. It's just a nice fiery discussion every now and then.What it comes down to is that Toro didn't need to purchase Wheel Horse, they already had their own consumer level market products department, but they did, and continued to make the same tractor until the very end. (With other product line offshoots as well.) Not only that, they took over support of product lines going back 40 years prior to the acquisition.They kept the Whee Horse alive in a struggling market, long after the consumer interest focus had shifted to the efficiency and speed of zero turn mowers, and even though more and more parts are going NLA, they've kept up support for a product line they discontinued 10 years ago now.

 

A good read on the acquisition of Wheel Horse is in a book by the former CEO of Toro during those days. He discusses the strategy behind the Wheel Horse acquisition and some of the intentions and reconsiderations during the transition. The book is called Making the Grass Greener on Your Side by Ken Melrose.  https://www.amazon.com/Making-Grass-Greener-Your-Side/dp/1881052214 

 

I hope you continue to post, and look forward to some of your other experiences. It's fun to see the reactions of the newcomer to the Wheel Horse world.  You are correct, they are not at all like any other tractors. That's why we love them!

 

 

[bmsgaffer 2,049]

2 hours ago, Adam Bish said:

yes it is just you i guess, if you read any and all of my posts. you will see i did not SLAM anything. you are just another perfect example of the ever-growing population of thin-skinned americans. i assure you my tractor will turn out just as fine as the 50+ others i have restored. good day to you.

mods please lock or delete this thread so no more feathers get ruffeled. i will refrain from posting here any further.

 

Its not just him, he's just the first one to say it out loud. 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,569]

Good post, Jason.  I also seen those Cub Cadet comparisons on other brands, and those have to be read with a grain of salt.  Being from IH, they're bit bias, but that is understandable.  I would imagine if Wheel Horse did one, there be some negatives on the CCs as well.

[TDF5G 2,072]

Here is a brief history of .  Some of the newer members might not have read this.  I don't know how accurate it is or who the author is.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/al2/wheelhorse/wheelhorsehistory.html

[Racinbob 11,788]

Excellent Jason. Of course I've already got Martinos book but now I have the Melrose book on the way. Sounds interesting.

[wallfish 17,597]

Hmmm, I never took anything Adam wrote as slamming anything. He did explain multiple times it was something he wasn't used to seeing or working on, so naturally there would be some questions.

Maybe what set it off was the "I prefer green"

[chinoman279 10]

I briefly met Adam a couple weeks ago to purchase a few parts from him(deck, snow blower, etc).  We discussed many things, mainly wheel horses/tractors of the green variety.  I do not believe Adam is slamming the wheel horse way.  It is more of an inquiry as to why some parts were designed the way they were.  He is looking to restore an already nice C-160 and had several questions.  Some of which were asked here.  He is new to the wheel horse scene, as he stated, but certainly not to tractors.  He was in the middle of restoring a cub when I met him.  As far as I can tell his restorations are to better than showroom condition.

I've been around wheel horses since I was about 8 years old, nearly 30 years, and must say there are times I have questions as to why a part was designed the way it is.  Not because I think it is junk, but could it be made better, if so why didn't it get manufactured that way.  For instance I've wondered for the last 20 years or so why the foot rests on my 312 are made of thin enough steel that the brake pedal bends the foot rest down on the corner.  It is not like the spring is that strong.  Machine was bought new, never abused.  As Adam asked, was it a price point concern?  Something that got overlooked?  How about the floppy hoods on some models?

I love the machines.  I will always have one for their simplicity, attachments, and durability.  Those are just some of the questions I asked occasionally. The reason I'm on the forum is because I had a question years ago and all the gurus here were quick to answer.  The innovative minds here have an answer or a solution for everything.

[Adam Bish 34]

thank you

Edited September 9, 2016 by Adam Bish
......................

[Howie 899]

I think the steering deign could have been a cost thing for Wheel Horse. My father-in-law had a lot of John Deere tractors and after mowing for him

I realized why most had the knob added to the steering wheel. Just do not take this wrong, they reminded me of driving  my 50 Chevy. The Wheel

Horse reminds me of a car with rack and pinion steering. Could the design have been better probably. So many of their have not had the maintenance

they should have had.  My 69 Raider I have that I have owned since 74 or75 still has the original steering gears in it. When retired I did shim everything

so the clearance was minimal.Steering nice and snug. If one has the capability can bore the axle put bushings in them, same with spindles. I think my

axle there has minimal wear there. A friend of ours who was the foreman at a foundry where these parts were made brought me two of the fan gears

both are raw pieces no hole for the shaft. Also have a front axle that has no machine work done to it. Again both are different designs both with there

own design pitfalls in my mind. Each may have their better points but I think the Wheel Horse is the more simple design overall to work on. Even

though I own Wheel Horse I have worked on Deeres and Cubs as well as others for about 35 years. Seems they all have their own why did they do 

it that way designs. Not putting any brands down here just my observations over the years.

 

 

 

 

 

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

Adam, I too collect other garden tractors. I got into cub cadets for pulling, but the WH I bought last spring has really grown on me. Yes it has some quirks, but so do my cubs.

 

I have always liked the looks of them. I bought the WH because it had a loader on it and planned on selling it after I moved the loader to a 149 cub. I plan on keeping it now and am already thinking about buying another. 

 

 

 

 

Randy

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,569]

22 minutes ago, RandyLittrell said:

Adam, I too collect other garden tractors. I got into cub cadets for pulling, but the WH I bought last spring has really grown on me. Yes it has some quirks, but so do my cubs.

 

I have always liked the looks of them. I bought the WH because it had a loader on it and planned on selling it after I moved the loader to a 149 cub. I plan on keeping it now and am already thinking about buying another. 

 

 

 

 

Randy

Randy,

I know you're thinking about attending the Mid-Mo meet and greet next Saturday.  There might be some tractors there to purchase.  I won't have any to sell, but I'm sure there will be some.

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

12 minutes ago, T-Mo said:

Randy,

I know you're thinking about attending the Mid-Mo meet and greet next Saturday.  There might be some tractors there to purchase.  I won't have any to sell, but I'm sure there will be some.

Thanks, I am not ready to buy right now, just looking to educate myself so I'll know what I am looking for later. WH made a LOT of different models, I have a lot to digest around here!

 

 

 

Randyt

Edited September 9, 2016 by RandyLittrell

[WHX?? 50,912]

 

2 hours ago, T-Mo said:

There might be some tractors there to purchase.

 

I think Terry is trying to hurry your addiction along a little Randy.

[WHX?? 50,912]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 11:39 AM, TDF5G said:

Here is a brief history of .

Thanks for that link TDF ...picked a few tidbits out of there I did not know.... got a ways to go to catch up with @Racinbob's knowledge base tho! Excuse me now while I go Wikipedia !