k90 Trouble

[jsp_333 222]

Was working on a K90 replacing the wiring to the points and kill switch.

Naturally the spark plug wire became detached from the ignition coil.

When I get the wiring worked out I notice that the opening that takes the spark plug wire has become distorted.

Also the coil material is quite soft and pliable. Is it supposed to be?

Put the spark plug wire in place as best I can - get the flywheel back on and give it a spin while holding the spark plug wire.

Get a shock like I'm supposed to.

Get the engine back on the tractor try to fire it up and there is nothing.

Try holding the lead with the spark plug in the cylinder head and get nothing.

Have I somehow wrecked the coil??

 

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Not if you got a shock like you're supposed to. 

[953 nut 51,735]

2 hours ago, jsp_333 said:

Get a shock like I'm supposed to

You didn't jump back and jerk the wire out again when it shocked you?

[953 nut 51,735]

2 hours ago, jsp_333 said:

Get a shock like I'm supposed to

You didn't jump back and jerk the wire out again when it shocked you?

[wallfish 15,930]

Beat my head against a wall with that same issue on a K90. An old timer told me to close the points and adjust them out very slightly each time you try to start it until it fires.

If the points were just gaped like normal, it would spark with the plug out but not when it was in. This worked for mine and got it going in about 1/2 hour. Give it a try.

[jsp_333 222]

I'll give it a try tomorrow after work.

Didn't try too long tonight -  maybe 5 times before testing spark plug wire and calling it a night.

Didn't hear anything that sounded like life from the the engine.

I'll put more time into it tomorrow

Thanks all

 

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Along with John's advise...     

I would try putting a new plug in it too.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by AMC RULES

[953 nut 51,735]

I have never had a need to do this, but filed it for future, may help you.

Kohler static_timing.pdf

[jsp_333 222]

I just looked over the static timing pdf and that looks worth while to say the least.

Great info. Thanks

[jsp_333 222]

"close the points and adjust them out very slightly each time you try to start it until it fires"

At the risk of being a bit dim is that any different then gapping the points at .020 and steadily increasing the gap to - lets say -

.022, .024, .026 until you get it to fire.

Would prefer to work with the feeler guage as this isn't something I have a great deal of experience with.

As long as I'm admitting my limitations - could not for the life of me find a timing sight hole on the K90 to perform the 

static timing proceedure as mentioned above.  Want to try it for the 414-8 although.

Hmmm a new spark plug. That seems like a good idea. 

 

Cheers John 

 

[wallfish 15,930]

My engine's points would open and close when normally set at .020, while I had the plug out,( to easily spin the engine) and would create spark but not with the plug installed for some reason.There may have been deeper issues causing that but it fired up and ran fine once it got going.

If you already have your points set to .020, watch them and the push rod while you try to start the engine and see if they open and/or close ALL THE WAY. If they don't, Remove the plug and watch again. If they seem to be working as normal with the plug in just try setting them at .018. If not, just try this.

Close the points to less than .020, until they don't open at all when spinning the engine to start.  Then adjust them very slightly open more each time you try to start it. No feeler gauge is necessary but if you prefer just set them to .012 try it, set to .014, try it, .016, .018 ect. ect. It's quicker to just tweak it each time until it fires. 

 

 

 

 

[AMC RULES 36,945]

You may be suprised to see your no spark issues all go away...

by simply adding a new plug to the equation.           

[wallfish 15,930]

Certainly possible a new plug could do it but it's sparking when not installed AND he wasn't getting a shock from the wire when the plug was installed.  

That's why I was suggesting the long road rather than just changing the plug.

It's also possible that wire came loose from the coil if it wasn't set in with epoxy.

[jsp_333 222]

I'll give both a try naturally.  The photo of the points is fantastic because I now understand what you were trying to tell me above.

I kept loosening the screw and using the guage thinking I was adjusting the points.

But what you described makes sense to me now because of the photo.

Once again priceless advice

 

3 hours ago, wallfish said:

 

It's also possible that wire came loose from the coil if it wasn't set in with epoxy.

 

Set in epoxy !?!?!?

I was lucky to get the damn thing on

[wallfish 15,930]

K90, What type of coil? Hope it's not a Bendix coil but you said it was soft or something.

 

[jsp_333 222]

[wallfish 15,930]

Sweet, you can replace that one! (if necessary) It certainly shouldn't look melted like it does but it looks funny, like it has a cover on it or something. Never seen one like that.

You should probably epoxy that wire in there or it may shake loose.  looks like there's plenty of room. Maybe the spike didn't poke into the wire easily which might be why you had a tough time getting it in there.

 

[jsp_333 222]

Ohhh epoxy the spark plug wire in place.

Now that makes sense.

I thought you meant the wire that leads to the points.

And is it just me or is that the strangest wat to attach a wire.

A "little spike".  Really. Really

[wallfish 15,930]

At least it allows the wire to be replaced without having to change the entire coil. Anyone who ever had mice get into their engine and chew that wire can certainly appreciate the fact it can be changed.

 

After re-reading your initial post about having spark while the engine was on the bench and then loosing it when you installed the engine on the tractor and then looking at that pic of the coil, I'm now thinking that plug wire may have come loose from the coil. Was it pulled out from the accident before the rewire? Is that plug wire damaged, or cracked? The spark can jump out of cracks in the insulation of the plug wire just like it jumps the gap on the spark plug.

 

Does it still get spark with the plug removed?

 

 

[jsp_333 222]

That coil / wire set up I pulled from my only other working K90 after "the accident".

And after I install the coil and fed the s.p. wire through the opening in the plate

the first thing I do is secure it to the body of engine using the s.p. wire clamp

usually seen once the shrouds are put on.  I'm really nervous about pulling it loose.

Had good spark last night on the bench - turning the flywheel and holding s.p. wire in my hand...  so the wire is secure.

New plug tonight and properly adjusted points and we'll see what happens.

[jsp_333 222]

This is just getting weird.

 

Get the new plug and go through the gap points set up.

She turns over beautifully.

Big thanks to WALLFISH & AMCRules

Let her run a couple of times for a few minutes.

Put the engine in the tractor bolt it down - put the hood on - attach gas - blah blah blah

NOTHING

Take the whole thing apart - get the engine off the tractor - it fires right up.

Put engine back on tractor but don't bolt it down - put it away for the night to frustrated.

Go out this morning 1 pull she fires right up.

I'm not willing to commit at this point so I put a couple of the engine bolts in.

She fires right up.  Put the whole tractor back together.

NOTHING.

I'm now going back outside to start taking her apart and firing the engine after each step.

But I'm really at a loss as to whats causing this and any help would be appreciated.

 

 

 

And now it's snowing!!!

[wallfish 15,930]

Are you just trying to test our internet engine diagnosis skills?

 

Are you connecting the kill wire to a switch? or is it still hanging loose?

[AMC RULES 36,945]

           ...and now it's snowing!!!

                        

I bet, if you put this project away until winter...

then give it a pull, you'll make the sun come out.   

[squonk 38,939]

Is the coil somehow not insulated from the block and when you bolt down the engine every things getting grounded hence no spark? Or in other words, somethings grounding the mag when the engine is bolted in. 

[jsp_333 222]

Kill wire is hanging loose but has a cap on the end of it.

 

The minute I remove the brass screw, washer and lock nut in photo it fires right up.

For a while.

Also used  lock nuts on bolts holding engine to frame.  Don't know if that's causing the issue.

Ya I think something is grounding the mag.  Haven't got a clue what though. 

I'll get the engine back on the bench tomorrow make sure it's good and be diligent about how I

put the tractor back together. Thanks all