Comments on a 257-H

[petes 150]

Later today I'm going to look at a 85 257-H with the snowblower attached and a mower deck (not sure what size) that needs some work.  I'm familiar with the Kawasaki FC-540V engine, the green machine this might be replacing uses the same engine and have found it to be a damn good engine, but wonder about the rest. It looks like the blower is a manual lift,(kinda looking for a hydraulic lift but not a deal breaker) . I'm assuming the Eaton 7 transmission have been good ones. Anything else I should be looking for, electrical issues?

Pete

 

 

[SALTYWRIGHT 859]

I had a 257-h and the trans was the weak link. also the frame bends on load. it is just a stamped piece..

[petes 150]

Well, I brought it home. It starts and runs well. The blower needs a new knife edge but is in real good shape. The mower is badly damaged one of the blade spindles is completely ripped from the deck, never seen that before musta hit a boulder or a redwood stump. The front axle pin is tight but the tie rod ends need to be addressed. Hood hinge needs to be tightened up. Electrically it seem ok just a few wires to fix. Have to change engine oil and trans fluid too. The owner also gave me the tractor operator's manual and manuals for the mower deck and snowblower. Even the 1988 sales brochure  Still $350.00 isn't a bad deal.

[bds1984 1,384]

I was interested in that same outfit as a curiosity but passed.  I still can't get over the twisting of the belts to make a vertical shaft engine drive a horizontal input transaxle!  I really wanted it because of the engine having low hours but the busted up deck kinda turned me off.  Hopefully you can straighten it up!  Good luck!

[petes 150]

The tractor and snowblower was what I was really interested in, the deck is toast, probably end up stripping it and swap the good parts. Thanks 

[squonk 38,951]

Are we sure that trans is horizontal drive? I had a 210H and the drive was vertical on the hydro. I did run a horiz. blower off of an Allis on it with a twist belt and it worked great.

[wh500special 2,054]

Yep Mike, the transmission is horizontal on the 250 series.  It's a goofy arrangement, but not as goofy as other ventures WH made with V-belts over the years (I'm talking about you, C-195 rear PTO kit!).

 

DMESS used to say that if Wheel Horse built a rocket to the moon, they'd power it with V-belts.

 

Steve

[Mr Eric 0]

On 4/8/2016 at 9:53 AM, bds1984 said:

I was interested in that same outfit as a curiosity but passed.  I still can't get over the twisting of the belts to make a vertical shaft engine drive a horizontal input transaxle!  I really wanted it because of the engine having low hours but the busted up deck kinda turned me off.  Hopefully you can straighten it up!  Good luck!

Ok how do I get the belt to stay on I have a 257-h and replaced all pulleys and belt and the belt flies off every time you engage blower very frustrating any ideas

[Mr Eric 0]

How do I get belt to stay on have replaced all pulley and belt and it pops off as soon as engage

[Handy Don 10,622]

Hoping someone on here has direct experience with the 200 series blowers to be more help.

I can only off the usuals (these may or not apply to your situation)

Belts come off when:

- belt is damaged (kink, cut, internal cord breakage)

- belt is the wrong size (length or width or flex, i.e. L vs not L)

- belt is incorrectly routed (including wrong twist)

- belt is improperly tensioned (too loose or too tight)

- pulleys are misaligned due to wear or damaged mounting

- pulleys are bent or crooked

 

When a belt comes off a pulley and the pulley throwing the belt seems correct, I next look at the belt's travel direction and go upstream, i.e. where was the belt right before it got to this pulley? Is the problem at that place?

 

If the belt is coming off as soon as you engage, it riding up and off because of lateral pressure on the belt. Where is that pressure coming from? What is pushing that belt to the side?

 

Good luck!

[Mr Eric 0]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Hoping someone on here has direct experience with the 200 series blowers to be more help.

I can only off the usuals (these may or not apply to your situation)

Belts come off when:

- belt is damaged (kink, cut, internal cord breakage)

- belt is the wrong size (length or width or flex, i.e. L vs not L)

- belt is incorrectly routed (including wrong twist)

- belt is improperly tensioned (too loose or too tight)

- pulleys are misaligned due to wear or damaged mounting

- pulleys are bent or crooked

 

When a belt comes off a pulley and the pulley throwing the belt seems correct, I next look at the belt's travel direction and go upstream, i.e. where was the belt right before it got to this pulley? Is the problem at that place?

 

If the belt is coming off as soon as you engage, it riding up and off because of lateral pressure on the belt. Where is that pressure coming from? What is pushing that belt to the side?

 

Good luck!

I’ve tried loosening tightening the parts sheet someone else posted on my original post lists 127 inch belt so that’s what I bought the thing it worked with old belt and I hit small rock blowing it jammed the auger and I didn’t hit switch quick enough as I had just bought it and had to look for switch quick and you know what happens when you don’t shut off so old belt come off and I didn’t realize how complicated it is and didn’t take pictures of all the twists so I put everything together the way the parts diagram shows every nut bolt washer and spacer and here’s where I am 

[Handy Don 10,622]

Just now, Mr Eric said:

I’ve tried loosening tightening the parts sheet someone else posted on my original post lists 127 inch belt so that’s what I bought the thing it worked with old belt and I hit small rock blowing it jammed the auger and I didn’t hit switch quick enough as I had just bought it and had to look for switch quick and you know what happens when you don’t shut off so old belt come off and I didn’t realize how complicated it is and didn’t take pictures of all the twists so I put everything together the way the parts diagram shows every nut bolt washer and spacer and here’s where I am 

Yeah, having an unusual issue before being real familiar with the thing is a pain.

I'm assuming you already looked for the owner's manual for the blower, it would show how to mount it so you can be sure of routing. May well be in the documents section of this site. Search the net. Key the model number in search box.

I can't help but think that with lots of HP turning that blower, that having it jam bent something.

[squonk 38,951]

Is this a drive set up where the belt goes all the way to the back and turns around and comes back to the blower?  Those are a PITA. I'm thinking the belt is on wrong somewhere if it comes off as soon as you engage it. Is the blower auger free and not binding? How about a model # of the blower.

 

My retired engineer neighbor bought a brand new top of the line JD about 15 years ago. Belt went to the back and it wouldn't stay on right out of the box. 3 trips later to the ealer he told them to keep it! 

[Handy Don 10,622]

4 minutes ago, squonk said:

Belt went to the back and it wouldn't stay on right out of the box.

 -- a "factory" fail!

[Mr Eric 0]

51 minutes ago, squonk said:

Is this a drive set up where the belt goes all the way to the back and turns around and comes back to the blower?  Those are a PITA. I'm thinking the belt is on wrong somewhere if it comes off as soon as you engage it. Is the blower auger free and not binding? How about a model # of the blower.

 

My retired engineer neighbor bought a brand new top of the line JD about 15 years ago. Belt went to the back and it wouldn't stay on right out of the box. 3 trips later to the ealer he told them to keep it! 

Model is 0637sk01 and you have to be a rocket scientist to install belt it goes from blower halfway back to a flat pulley and a v pulley and then back to pulley on motor there is a twist in it because of the 2 different pulleys not sure why they didn’t do something different that wasn’t so complex 

[Handy Don 10,622]

5 minutes ago, Mr Eric said:

Model is 0637sk01 and you have to be a rocket scientist to install belt it goes from blower halfway back to a flat pulley and a v pulley and then back to pulley on motor there is a twist in it because of the 2 different pulleys not sure why they didn’t do something different that wasn’t so complex 

Can you tell where it's coming off?  Engine pulley? The V reversing pulley? The flat reversing pulley? Blower pulley? Idler tensioner?

It's going to be a process of elimination unless you can see some obvious damage.

The long run to the middle of the tractor is to give the belt enough room to make the twist from horizontal shaft to vertical shaft. The twist puts lateral force on the belt at both ends as the belt tries to "untwist" -- so alignment and tension for those pulleys are critical.

 

[Mr Eric 0]

12 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Can you tell where it's coming off?  Engine pulley? The V reversing pulley? The flat reversing pulley? Blower pulley? Idler tensioner?

It's going to be a process of elimination unless you can see some obvious damage.

The long run to the middle of the tractor is to give the belt enough room to make the twist from horizontal shaft to vertical shaft. The twist puts lateral force on the belt at both ends as the belt tries to "untwist" -- so alignment and tension for those pulleys are critical.

 

No I can’t I replaced all but blower pulley and no obvious damage to it no wobble in bearings I know one thing never buy another and I think I’m going to sell this one hopefully get most of my money back paid 400 plus 50 in parts I’ve bought one bonus it has the wheel horse hubcaps

[Handy Don 10,622]

Sorry to hear it's not going your way.

If you do decide to sell, the classifieds here on this forum will give you a knowledgeable audience of potential buyers!

[Mr Eric 0]

Just now, Handy Don said:

Sorry to hear it's not going your way.

If you do decide to sell, the classifieds here on this forum will give you a knowledgeable audience of potential buyers!

Ok thanks

[Handy Don 10,622]

36 minutes ago, Mr Eric said:

No I can’t I replaced all but blower pulley and no obvious damage to it no wobble in bearings I know one thing never buy another and I think I’m going to sell this one hopefully get most of my money back paid 400 plus 50 in parts I’ve bought one bonus it has the wheel horse hubcaps

Not wanting to offend as I don't know the extent of your mechanical abilities, but remote diagnostics are hard.

A bent mounting is not likely to be that visible, especially if you don't have a good familiarity with how it should be!

 

As far as I can see from the parts diagram and from seeing other WH implementations, the twist in the belt happens as the belt travels between the two rear idler pulleys and the motor pulley (if looking from the rear toward the motor, each side of the belt twists 90º--the left side ends up with the V downward and riding in the V idler and the right side ends up with the flat downward and riding on the flat idler.  There is no belt twist between the blower pulley and those rear idler pulleys. There is an extra flat pulley that brings the upper side of the belt down below the front axle. Is this the way you have it?

 

I see on the parts diagram that there is a bolt/nut that pulls a bracket carrying the flat and v pulleys used to tension the belt and reverse its direction.  The load tension is from the motor, over the V and all the way up to bottom of the blower pulley (load being the load of turning the blower).  If the upper edge of the tensioner V pulley is not lined up with the motor pulley so the belt is CENTERED in the groove of the motor pulley, then it'll surely drop off the motor. I'd look first to that bracket and make sure it's where it should be vertically and that the belt it quite firmly tightened.

The flat tensioner pulley's alignment is not as critical but it too should be positioned so that the belt is riding in the center as it goes over the pulley.

 

 Is it possible to get good pictures showing the installed belt and then maybe a video of its coming off when you engage the mower? For the video it'd probably be good to get the tractor tilted a bit with the wheels on blocks and the other side wheels chocked so the machine can't roll off.

[Bogged Down 1]

Mr. Eric not sure if you still have this belt issue but I had the same problem and I found a solution. You are doing everything correct. The idler pulley in front of the transmission pulley is where the belt slips off correct? If this is what’s happening you need to remove the idler pulley along with the clutch, brake, and speed control linkage. It’s very simple only 2 bolts. Then you remove the bolt from the idler pulley and fabricate a belt retaining tab that goes under the head of the bolt and sticks out past the edge of the pulleys outer diameter. What this does is prevent the new belt from coming off when the engine first starts and gives it time to find itself. I will attach a photo later. Hopefully this will help some people. 

[BBQVultureWings 15]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:00 AM, Bogged Down said:

Mr. Eric not sure if you still have this belt issue but I had the same problem and I found a solution. You are doing everything correct. The idler pulley in front of the transmission pulley is where the belt slips off correct? If this is what’s happening you need to remove the idler pulley along with the clutch, brake, and speed control linkage. It’s very simple only 2 bolts. Then you remove the bolt from the idler pulley and fabricate a belt retaining tab that goes under the head of the bolt and sticks out past the edge of the pulleys outer diameter. What this does is prevent the new belt from coming off when the engine first starts and gives it time to find itself. I will attach a photo later. Hopefully this will help some people. 

Can you provide the picture ? I just bought a 257-H with a snowblower But need to assemble it yet ... After reading this, I am wondering if it wasnt such a great idea.... pics of the belt routing on a machine that works correctly would be great thanks

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,503]

All we have on the model is an illustrated parts list which may help. The general belt installed shape is shown.