Rookie question - oil dipstick - K341

[Aldon 4,828]

Ok. Just getting ready to tackle a minor refresh in the engine that was on my GT14 when I got it.

 

so it will end up being a GT14+2

 

Anyway, as can be seen in pic, the location of dipstick puts it basically under the gas tack shield with very little room to access.

 

It looks like there is a plug in same space on the opposite side. Am I ok in assuming all I need do is swap them?

 

The next thing I would like to know is whether there is a longer dipstick tube set up I could install to bring access out to the non PTO side of tractor for checking oil level and adding oil.

[pfrederi 18,394]

The longer dipstick on one of my 341 goes into the block about where the lonely bolt is in your last picture.  You can see the casting has some flat space where other specs had the dip stick. So to answer your question yes you could use the other hole but not put in a longer dipstick..(that I am aware of)

[ztnoo 2,299]

My K341 has its filler pipe and dipstick on the back side......the starter side....the rear of the engine....but up in roughly the location of the bolt and washer. Note however, the Allen hex key pipe thread plug in the bottom of the block, just above the oil pan.

I'm guessing that matches the threading of the filler pipe and dipstick on your engine front side. Whether there's still enough room on the backside under the starter to pull the dip stick is something I can't answer.... but without oil in the engine it would be easy to switch and see about the clearances......threading looks the same to me. I'll get some pics of my set up shortly. What year (or model #) GT 14 do you have that the engine came out of?

Edited February 28, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,828]

It is a multiple year tractor. The engine was obviously a modification. 

 

If if a taller or longer dipstick can't be sourced from another Kohler model then I'll likely fabricate one. 

 

It it seems as long as the bend is not too severe I should be able to navigate around the starter.

 

A potentially easier mod would be to lengthen the existing dipstick. Access is issue. So if I could extend it to the top area between engine/carb/gas tank shield that might be the bees knees....

[ztnoo 2,299]

   

 

 

The tractor you just brought home looks like it has a tall filler pipe like mine.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by ztnoo

[pfrederi 18,394]

ZTnoos dip stick looks just like mine.  You can even see the small  mounting bolt on the out side of the elbow would fit into the bump out on your casting (the little thing to the right of the bolt in your last picture)

[Gary L. 12]

I changed K321 engines on my GT14 with an engine that came from a stationary

unit, it came with a dipstick plug that will work under the starter ok if your hands

aren't real large.. Gary L.

[Aldon 4,828]

So does anyone know off hand the female thread size or  not for entry into block?

 

There are some nice flexible tube set ups for aftermarket hot rods that may be a great addition if I can match up thread sizes.

[pfrederi 18,394]

If the head if the plug measures about 13/16 then it is 1/2"NPT  (I have a K181 on the bench and that is what it has)  The K301s341 That I can get to right now do not have that plug the have the dipsticks like Zitnoo or have the square head plug dip stick at the top of the crank case.

[ztnoo 2,299]

I've nosed around a bit at that well known 4 letter auction site, and it would appear there were/are a number of oil filler tube/dipsticks combination offered, likely depending on the intended service situation for the engine.

I think switching the existing filler tube to the back side and the pipe plug to the front side of the engine would work, exchanging those positions. Hand clearance would probably be improved over the current positioning, but access would likely be restricted more that what might be desired or ideal.

This appears to be like Aldon's:

  

 

My tube is like the one below and is mounted in a position on the rear of the engine near the outside (clutch side of the engine) where the right side mounting hole occupies the location of the bolt and washer on Aldon's engine. Two other mounting holes are used with my filler, and straight bladed screws are the fasteners. To utilize a filler tube like this, there has to be a port machined into the block for the dipstick access, along with two more threaded holes. I've seen several different length filler tubes and corresponding dipsticks which can fit in this location......again likely dependent on the original service design and purpose. The tube I have appears to be the longest that was used for the assembly to attach to the block at this location.

 

  

shorter version:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

    

 

medium length version:

 

As to the question of pipe size, I believe pfrederi is correct. Below are pics of a filler tube which appears to be the same as Aldon's along with two pics of an new auction item. Sure looks to be the same to me. The ad text specifically states: "The tube is 1-7/8" long and has 1/2" pipe threads and is for the K161 and K181 engine models." Aldon's engine is a K341 and looks to have the short tube as in the three pics below. I contend any length (or shaped) threaded filler tube could be used, as long as it is matched with a dipstick that is long enough to measure full oil level, yet not interfere with any engine internal moving parts.

 

     

 

By that same token, there's nothing to prevent the use of another tractor brand's variation which was on a Kohler, as long as the threading is correct to use on the engine and application in question. The oil filler tube below is advertised as being removed from a Gravely G 16 with a 16 hp Kohler Magnum engine. Appears to have the same size threading as the above filler tubes.This tube appears to have only a screw cap and no actual dipstick. The threaded lock ring allows for position to suit.

The most critical thing in modifying the oil filler/dipstick from stock is making sure the correct full oil level can be monitored and visualized in some fashion. As long as that done, I'd say anything that meets your satisfaction and convenience is absolutely fine.

There's no point in having a filler tube you either can't get to, or can't get to relatively easily.

 

           

 

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,828]

I think I hve decided to try and route the Dipstick tube up the front. Here are pics with measurements actual. I am not good with NPT stuff so hopefully with these two pics someone will confirm my thread size. Also a pic from top of my other tractors which indicates enough space if I can locate a flexible dipstick tube to wind around the fuel pump and protruding rounded cover and in close proximity to exhaust pipe. Similar to route of fuel line. Luckily I rarely need to check oil while engine is at running temps.

[pfrederi 18,394]

That is bigger than half inch looks like 3/4" to me....  Look at this page on how to figure pipe sizes

 

Pipe sizing

 

[ztnoo 2,299]

Boy, the front end plumbing mod is a pretty tight fit......at least it looks that way to moi.

The rear is more open and accessible to start off with, even with your existing filler, or for instance the angled one I posted above.

A guy could reach in from the right (clutch) side and access the dipstick easier than replumbing the front threaded outlet port to get it up to almost hood level between the heat shield and the engine.......

btw, what does that bolt do? what is its function on that tractor??

 

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,828]

So the engine block on mine would need to be modified to install one like Yours Steve. That is just a threaded hole on mine. Something was bolted into it in its previous use there.

 

So I am going to hve to navigate curves and bends regardless of whether I go with front or rear mounting.

 

Here is what I am thinking.. As long as I can transition the base to the 1inch threaded entry into oil pan. Still searching options. Need to hit Napa or something. I do my best jury rigging when I can see and touch the components.

[Aldon 4,828]

So I am working on a plan. PTFE tubing with NPT compression fitting Male threads to match block once confirmed size to flared. Stainless braid covered or red or black opaque tubing. Thinking about using some sort of bulkhead fitting and making a hole in the fuel tank shield. Then find an aftermarket dipstick and fab up by using the original dipstick cap. The PTFE should provide a slick enough inner wall to allow the dipstick to slide easy. I can make dipstick to correct length with a little trial and error.

 

Well that's the plan this evening. Never done one before but it seems this should work.

 

Anyone feel this would not work?

[ztnoo 2,299]

Seems like you don't have much to lose scoping it out other than your time. The parts would reasonable (plastic fittings as opposed to cast fittings) to "get you where you want to go" ......... meaning an accessible place to the add oil and check for proper oil level. The tubing probably could be heated enough to bend slightly if needed for desired routing. Given you're pondering trying this, I would still consider using the rear port we discussed earlier. Its much more open on the rear of the engine than the front.

Also a rear location would be more forgiving in terms of any oil spillage, as opposed to the front of the engine where there's a closer relationship with the fuel tank, the heat shield, and engine itself. If your materials go together as envisioned, you would end up with something looking very close to the OEM set up such as I have, but using a lower starting point (where the pipe plug is currently) than my filler tube.

 

Why couldn't you reverse the fittings on the upper end (with a female fitting) and go ahead and use your existing short oil filler tube screwed into that? There's tons of long dipsticks like mine on eBay to either add to or clip off as needed. I'm pretty sure these have the same dipstick seal as what you current have. The longer dipstick itself would be the costliest item in this custom change. The flat stock dipstick, as opposed to a rod, would provide enough strength to allow it too push though the filler tube, yet be flexible enough to turn and make its way through any bends or slight curves you might need for clearance.

 

Off a John Deere Kohler K321                                                                                     

Edited February 29, 2016 by ztnoo

[ztnoo 2,299]

Tried looking for something different that would adapt to this oil filler modification we're discussing.

Took a different tack by researching different manufacturers oil filler tubes.

Tecumseh is the closest and most nearly like the style of the Kohler fillers I have found.

I keep thinking one of these (the longer one most likely) could be adapted, if desired.

The brackets could be modified or cut off as needed.

The offset might clear obstacles either at the front or the rear of the engine.

The thing I like is that these are metal, like the Kohlers, and unlike most more modern fillers most of which are plastic.

It's not quite clear in my head yet exactly however how one of these could be adapted on the K341, but thought I'd throw them into the mix because their OD appears to me to be the same or very close to the Kohlers. Inquires could be made of the seller of their diameters at the "bottom" of the tube to determine possibilities.

I have the pages saved if you would like to see the links to these items, by other means of communication.

 

   

 

 

   

Edited February 29, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,828]

Going to drop by Fastenal and see if I can get the fittings I need. Once I do that, I will order the PTFE tubing from McMaster Carr.

 

Well I did not make it to Fastenal. And tomorrow is unlikely due to work and family stuff. So hopefully Wednesday morning....

Edited February 29, 2016 by Aldon

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,282]

I recall a few years ago about owners complaining about condensation in the tube when it was mounted at the left rear corner of the block on the Wheel Horse horizontal engines. Likely due to no heat on the tube. The fix was to move to a tube that was part of the cam gear cover if I remember correctly. Might be another option to look into. Probably places it in line with the hot air exhaust.

 

Garry

[Aldon 4,828]

I verified today at Fastenal that it is 3/4 NPT male thread. So I'll be doing up a draft parts list and order up components in next day or two.