Fire coming out of...

[arminer8 4]

I have a Kohler K181 8HP engine that when it runs, which aint to often, it spits sparks and flame out of the muffler side, up by the head. I assume that it is in need of a head gasket. Where can I get one? What size? All that good stuff! 

 

Thanks in advance

[Coadster32 793]

Could be in need of oil as well.

[Ed Kennell 42,108]

Could be the timing is off.

[cafoose 3,456]

Sounds like a timing issue. Check the point gap which affects the timing. It should be .020 but the gap is more accurately set with a timing light. The proper procedure is in the manual which can be downloaded in the manuals section or you can google it

[N3PUY 1,031]

Check "PartsTree".

 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/kohler-engines/engines-horizontal/k181-30461-kohler-k181-engine-k-series-wheel-horse-8hp-6kw-specs-30100-30848/cylinder-head-tp-2045-b/

[953 nut 60,238]

From what you are saying, if there if fire coming out of the head gasket then it needs to be replaced. You will also want to take a look at the head to be sure it is not damaged. NAPA has a good selection of Kohler parts. 

[arminer8 4]

19 hours ago, ekennell said:

Could be the timing is off.

Could the timing still be off when the engine runs? The tractor works, it's just when it gets darker outside, you can see sparks and the occasional flame coming out of the head! Still timing issue? How do you fix that

[cafoose 3,456]

Coming out of the head or the muffler? It can still run with the timing off if it's not off too much. Sparks and flame out of the muffler is a good indication the timing is off.

[arminer8 4]

14 minutes ago, cafoose said:

Coming out of the head or the muffler? It can still run with the timing off if it's not off too much. Sparks and flame out of the muffler is a good indication the timing is off.

Both. Sparks come out of the head, probably because of the gasket, and sparks come out of the muffler sometimes to. Now I can't get it to start back up. Could the timing being off not let it start? 

[cafoose 3,456]

If you can do a compression check I would do that first to see if the head gasket is bad. Head gaskets aren't that expensive and relatively easy to replace. Then I would check the point gap which is directly related to the timing. Have the points recently been replaced? if not, it may be a good idea to replace them, it's not that difficult and not expensive. Make sure you get a good quality set of points such as Kohler.

[arminer8 4]

1 hour ago, cafoose said:

If you can do a compression check I would do that first to see if the head gasket is bad. Head gaskets aren't that expensive and relatively easy to replace. Then I would check the point gap which is directly related to the timing. Have the points recently been replaced? if not, it may be a good idea to replace them, it's not that difficult and not expensive. Make sure you get a good quality set of points such as Kohler.

What do you mean by points? And no we haven't replaced them recently that I know of. Had it almost 8 years, paid 300 for it at an auction, and haven't done much work to it at all. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by arminer8
answer another question

[cafoose 3,456]

Ignition points under a tin cover by the ignition coil check out this video

 

 

 

[WH nut 553]

Pull the head, decarbon and replace the gasket. Set points and carb.

[prondzy 3,889]

On 2/4/2016 at 11:23 AM, Coadster32 said:

Could be in need of oil as well.

What would oil do for a bad head gasket??

 

21 hours ago, cafoose said:

If you can do a compression check I would do that first to see if the head gasket is bad. 

How do you do a compression check on an automatic compression release engine??

 

If it is running fine just replace the headgasket. Make sure you torque it warm it up and come back the next day and retorque the bolts again. Use the specs and tightening pattern found in the kohler manual. As for buying the gasket itself go to your local small engine shop or napa or ebay a kohler k181 head gasket 

[cafoose 3,456]

56 minutes ago, prondzy said:

How do you do a compression check on an automatic compression release engine??

 

Check out page 19 of this link:

 

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_32_690_01.pdf

Here are some more helpful links:

 

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/ens_593_f_all.pdf

 

http://gravelymanuals.com/pdf/Kohler_K91_K141_K161_K181_K241_K301_K321_Serv_Man_0472.pdf

 

 

[prondzy 3,889]

1 hour ago, cafoose said:

 

Check out page 19 of this link:

 

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_32_690_01.pdf

 

This isn't even the same motor, so page 19 is irrelevant. The best test you could do is a cylinder leak down test. Read the last manual you linked yourself before posting it for me. I have read it front to back and assembled many kohler k series engines  and understand how the compression release works. 

[cafoose 3,456]

The reason I sent you the link to check page 19 was to give you an understanding of the difficulty of testing the compression on an automatic compression release motor (ACR) and how to do a leak down test as an alternative. I know it's not the same motor but the same principle applies to your motor.

[Coadster32 793]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:45 AM, prondzy said:

What would oil do for a bad head gasket??

 

How do you do a compression check on an automatic compression release engine??

 

If it is running fine just replace the headgasket. Make sure you torque it warm it up and come back the next day and retorque the bolts again. Use the specs and tightening pattern found in the kohler manual. As for buying the gasket itself go to your local small engine shop or napa or ebay a kohler k181 head gasket 

 

Oil would probably do nothing for a head gasket. Being the 1st poster after the OP to this thread, it was a guess, and something easy to check as well. (I've seen it before...beleive it or not.) Head-gasket wasn't mentioned until after my post, and not related.

 

No offence taken, and hopefully not given..it's all good. 

[WH nut 553]

So what have you figured out?

[prondzy 3,889]

5 hours ago, Coadster32 said:

 

Oil would probably do nothing for a head gasket. Being the 1st poster after the OP to this thread, it was a guess, and something easy to check as well. (I've seen it before...beleive it or not.) Head-gasket wasn't mentioned until after my post, and not related.

 

No offence taken, and hopefully not given..it's all good. 

No offense given and none taken.  I'm trying to understand where oil would change the situation.it would be like telling him to check the air in the tores after he questions the head gasket.

[Ed Kennell 42,108]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 1:51 PM, WH nut said:

Pull the head, decarbon and replace the gasket. Set points and carb.

 

                                                  Have you done this yet?      I would also check the clearances and condition of the valves while the head is off.

[cleat 7,263]

For my K341 in the old Ford I had, setting the point gap with the feeler gauges was just a preliminary.

You then hook up a timing light and looking through a hole in the blower cover with the engine running, fine tune the adjustment until the timing marks line up.

 

This sets the timing exactly and the engine will run at it's best.

 

[arminer8 4]

To be honest with you guys, i haven't even looked at it lately. Been busy, and haven't had the time. Probably end up being my summer project, to get the thing working great for next winter! 

Sorry, I know some of you are probably curious, but just haven't looked at it lately! 

 

Thanks for all your help though! Greatly appreciated! 

[can whlvr 994]

if a gut has another horse a compression test can be done with a belt between the ptos,i think you may have to figure 8 it but then the engine spins at same speed as engine that's running