Nathanielperz 150 #1 Posted July 10, 2015 Well I took apart my k301 to try to find the knock and what I found kind of scares me a little bit. There is more than one knock coming from the engine. One when I move the connecting rod side to side, Another when I move the connecting rod up and down, and another when I remove the piston and connecting rod and rotate the flywheel.I made a video for you guys so you can see and hear what I'm talking about...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7fM8XS66ps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MalMac 1,328 #2 Posted July 11, 2015 Looks like you have a badly worn Rod. Good thing you caught it before something bad happen. The other noise, not sure of. Could be a broke cam or s well worn cam. Kinda hard for me to tell from video. Kohlers are very forgiving, but when they get way out of tolerance even they will give up and let you know with noises and big bangs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #3 Posted July 11, 2015 The connecting rod end cap is installed wrong. Oil hole should be facing the cam. Most likely worn rod and crank pin from lack of lubrication. If it were me, I would take the engine down completely and check everything and plan on a total rebuild because the damage is done. You are lucky the rod didn't let go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,160 #4 Posted July 11, 2015 Yeah Nathaniel, you got a sick puppy there ---Like said youre gonna have to do a complete teardown and do a thorough inspection - especially the crankshaft and cylinder. At the least youre gonna need a piston and rod, but very likely also have the crank turned and maybe a bore job. Thank goodness for all the 'rebuild kits' that have cropped up on the 'bay' in the last couple years, you can get an extensive 'kit' in the $100+ range. Kohler parts would cause a heart attack!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #5 Posted July 12, 2015 The connecting rod end cap is installed wrong. Oil hole should be facing the cam. Most likely worn rod and crank pin from lack of lubrication. If it were me, I would take the engine down completely and check everything and plan on a total rebuild because the damage is done. You are lucky the rod didn't let go. I took the piston and connecting rod out before I made the video and when I put it back in I must have put it in backwards but I did NOT run it... If that's what you meant by the was damage already done. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #6 Posted July 12, 2015 If its knocking, it needs a rebuild. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #7 Posted July 13, 2015 I was afraid of that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,940 #8 Posted July 15, 2015 Sorry to hear that! Any reputable engine machine shop will measure the crank and cylinder at no cost and give you an estimate, better to invest the money now rather than wishing you had later. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #9 Posted July 21, 2015 I was planning on ordering the rebuild kit on Ebay the more expensive on that comes with the valves as well. I figure if I'm rebuilding it anyways I might as well go all out and eliminate future issues at least for a while.What is the best way to measure the cylinder so I can order the right size piston? What tools do I need to do the rebuild? My dad said there were some special tools I would need to change the valves. What are they if that's true?Thanks in advance, Nate 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #10 Posted July 21, 2015 you will need a bore gauge and valve spring compressor and a mic to check the crank their is other stuff that will need checked to but thats the basics that i can remember off the top of my head and sum feeler gauges too 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #11 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) You will also need a ring compressor and a torque wrench. Edited July 21, 2015 by oldredrider 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAinVA 4,619 #12 Posted July 21, 2015 The rebuild tools named are essential.If the cylinder needs boring,and the crank needs turning then a rebuild can get expensive.The cost of the deluxe rebuild kit on E-bayis reasonable but if you include the price of the tools you need it might be more cost effective to find a good used or alternate aftermarket replacement.If you plan on doing other engines in the future then you can spread the tool cost over more than one.Most of us that rebuild our own engines have the tools so the parts and machine work arethe only expense.I'm not trying to talk you out of a rebuild but again the costs can add up quickly.JMHO,Luck,JAinVA 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #13 Posted July 25, 2015 Honestly JAinVA I am trying to talk myself out of rebuilding it. I think I might buy one that doesn't have a knock on CL... Or even better make it a diesel! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,940 #14 Posted July 25, 2015 If you have a Community College or Vocational school they will probably have a small engine or auto engine rebuilding "Lab" class where all the tools and guidance you will need can be yours. You can do the work and have access to the right tools for the cost of enrollment and take pride in it every time you run it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAinVA 4,619 #15 Posted July 25, 2015 Nate, Again I am not in anyway trying to talk you out of rebuilding what you have.953nut makes a good point and if this option is available you may want to consider what he suggests.I have bought engines off Craigs list and E-bay,used of course.I know that there are many folks here that have engines to sell.Maybe post a want add on this site.You might be surprised at what you turn up.If you rebuild what you have then there are many folks here that can guide you through the process.Keep us up to date on what you decide.I know I'm curious.Luck,JAinVA, Jim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #16 Posted July 30, 2015 I actually go to a vocational high school... But I talked to a small engine shop near by and he said it wasn't worth rebuilding it because the engine required parts that were to a very precise spec and if they weren't they would knock... They actually earned the nickname "woodpeckers" because they knocked so much. He said that as long as I regularly checked the oil and took care of the engine i could run if for a long time without the possibility of self destruction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #17 Posted July 30, 2015 Yeah, good luck with that one! Here's what you can expect:http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/37762-is-your-kohler-happy/#comment-337126 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #18 Posted July 30, 2015 Point taken... Hey any one want a k301 that needs some work? lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAinVA 4,619 #19 Posted July 30, 2015 Any shop that would say the BS your shop is telling you I would avoid.What do they think other engines are speced with,a measuring tape?If you can get the necessary tools and have any experiance with machines you could do a satifactory rebuild on what you have.Used engines and alternate replacements canbe had for less than a rebuild.You pay your money and takes your choice.Luck,JAinVA 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illinilefttackle 399 #20 Posted July 31, 2015 Do you have any NAPA AUTO PARTS stores near you? They usually have a reliable machine shop attached to them- take your engine in and ask them to check it out & tell you the size parts you need- them buy kits off ebay- also have new valve guides installed- to use with your new valves- Throw away the balance gears inside the engine- before you assemble it- if you are going to keep the engine- do the job right- my K301 complete rebuild cost me $450 dollars 6 years ago- but it still runs like new!- Good Luck!- Al Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #21 Posted July 31, 2015 Well for $450 I'm better off getting a new k301... JAinVA, I don't have the tools or the experience to know what I'm doing. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #22 Posted July 31, 2015 A 'new' k301 will set you back far more than $450...Swap in a predator engine and then you can sell the K301 cheap. There are plenty of people who would rebuild that to spec.Then you don't have to worry about tools or experience 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boovuc 1,090 #23 Posted August 1, 2015 Nathaniel,JA couldn't have put it any better! That shop didn't want your business or the guy is used to throw away engines and not the old Kohlers.What a joke. Most good shops are willing to work with an old Kohlers because they know they can be rebuilt and will last a long time afterwards.Just like a used car, if your buying a used Kohler, it too could have issues and changing the oil and doing regular maintenance will NOT undo the abuse it was already subjected to before you bought it. Now if you rebuild the old Kohler using a REAL machine Shop with experience working on the old rugged cast iron engines, all the care during the break-in period and the regular oil changes and maintenance you do will forever follow that engine.You could buy a used engine and when you have the money, get your old one rebuilt. If you ask them for an estimate, you may be pleasantly surprised at the cost. I know you don't have a whole lot of money but this is more of the old adage of doing it right for a little more money verses doing it quick/easy and spending more money in the long run. If your mowing grass for money, I can see where you need to get it up and running quickly. Just don't do anything hasty with that motor. I don't care if it sounds like a popcorn maker at it's peak of popping..............it most likely can be repaired and made to run new again. Food for thought, Nate! Take Care! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nathanielperz 150 #24 Posted August 2, 2015 Well I talked to my uncle who went to a vocational school and took small engine repair. He said that the cylinder wall is in good condition and probably doesn't need to be honed out. But there is some play in the valves side to side. He probably has the tools I would need and he could help me rebuild it.Thanks, Nate 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAinVA 4,619 #25 Posted August 2, 2015 Nate, You can do it.There are lots here that can help you.If the cylinder doesn't need boring you should break the glaze to help the new rings seat.You would do this with a spring loaded hone.If you don't have access to one you could create a cross hatch pattern by hand sanding(gently) with 220 grit wet or dry sand paper.You are looking to create a lightly scratched surface with scratches roughly at 35 degrees.The Kohler service manual is available online and shows what the scratches would look like.The manual I have is on CD and was less than $11.00.Well worth the cost.Luck,JAinVA. Jim 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
