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tombr77

model 1067 six speed transaxle

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tombr77

Hi.  new to this forum .  :)  my reliable 1067 started behaving strangely while polwing this Virginia snow....  Third gear is slower than it used to be & pulsates, especially when going up inclines.  Second gear also, but not as much. [ using high range].   I am thinking maybe lost some teeth on a gear?   are used transaxles and/or tranny parts available?  I'd like to keep this one running if i can get what parts i need &  its not too expensive .  Any advice and thoughts welcome.

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Terry M

Welcome to the  :rs:

  I believe your tractor has the 5060 6-speed  limited slip trans...so, with saying that, My first guess would be either the drive belt is very worn or the differential is having issues.    just my best guess.  

Some others may have a better idea.. :)

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groundhog47

:text-welcomewave: to :rs: Loose belt (slipping)(maybe oil on it or worn badly) or transmission input pulley loose possibly.

Edited by groundhog47

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TT

Check the axle / hub keys first.

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stevasaurus

Yep, should be one of the above.  You would know if you lost some teeth on a gear.  Let us know what you find...and yes...we do have people on here that have parts and spare transmissions for you horse.  :)

 

BTW...Welcome to Red Square.

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KC9KAS

:text-welcomewave: to :rs:

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tombr77

thanks for the tips.   the belt is certainly worn, i thought for sure i had a replacement on hand, but couldnt find it -- so i put belt dressing on the worn belt & it did grab better  [ and the 'chugging' was much worse... sounds like a clue-- the water from snow had been making it slip and squeal.  Also after i realized it was supposed to have limited slip, i think that must be worn out too!   I also noted that going downhill the transmission/engine doesnt provide braking like it used to... i guess that could also be the worn belt, although after the dressing i didnt hear the squeal anymore.    BTW the belt dressing is not the spray can stuff that softens the belts - it is some old 1940's vintage resin stick stuff my dad had.  usually works real well. 

It may be a badly slipping belt , thats cheap to replace & needed anyway.  There is oil in tranny, quite dirty & old... i should drain & replace on general principle. 

Any guesses why limited slip doesnt seem to be working?   that is not recent --- been that way for so long i didnt realize it had it.   But i do know that fifteen  years ago the tractor would plow several inches of snow going up the hill i cant make with plow raised anymore.  SO i think it used to work.


if i lost some teeth or badly worn, { on gear, not my mouth]  - what would i experience? 


{ BTW i will check the other suggestions as well - all good ones}

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tombr77

it is certainly possible that the belt dressing application was not uniform - creating 'sticky' sections on the worn belt.....

so if a new belt eliminates the 'chugg- chugg' drive pulsations, my next endeaver will be to investigate my lack of limited slip... in the  manual i didnt see clutch like surfaces as i expected -- what is the principle of operation for the limited slip?  i guess it's different from automotive positraction?

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tombr77

{ BTW, i am really excited that there are some guys out there that know about these old Horses.  Makes me glad i kept mine running all these years.  Of course i havent found newer ones to be builts as solidly. :)  }

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groundhog47

it is certainly possible that the belt dressing application was not uniform - creating 'sticky' sections on the worn belt.....

so if a new belt eliminates the 'chugg- chugg' drive pulsations, my next endeaver will be to investigate my lack of limited slip... in the  manual i didnt see clutch like surfaces as i expected -- what is the principle of operation for the limited slip?  i guess it's different from automotive positraction?

Member Srevasaurus Steve is the expert on these and has this video showing rebuild,

As far as how they work, I too am spmewhat perplexed. It appears only a spring type ring between 5 pinions keeps both axels in unison till tension overcomes it. Prob I'm wrong but my thought is with belt off, rear jacked up, out of gear, turning one wheel both should turn same direction lika a automotive type. If you hold one and turn other in neutral, you should feel a fairly strong resistance. Autos (some)(towards end of clurctes life) have a low end around 75 ft lbs torque with other wheel locked down. Broken teeth could completely stop till reach point where picks back up, to lock up to complete rotation, to really rough sequential grinding/bumping/rough sound rather than once in a while and would most likely occur flat/up hill or down hill load or no load conditions. Try jacking both wheels up, secure on stands and run, listen to sound. Also check oil (drain a bit) to see not  milky or evidence of water intrusion. Let us know what you find. A tear down may be needed>     

Edited by groundhog47
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tombr77

thanks.   I am thinking that maybe the viscosity of the oil around all those gears in diffverential creates 'drag' to provide limited slip... and if the 'correct fill level' is near the top of the filler plug, then i'm running low - so there would be less drag.  I hope thats it, as the fix is proper amount of oil.

i got new belt today, will try after work following drain & refill of transmssion.  Is the correct level near the top of fill  opening?

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groundhog47

thanks.   I am thinking that maybe the viscosity of the oil around all those gears in diffverential creates 'drag' to provide limited slip... and if the 'correct fill level' is near the top of the filler plug, then i'm running low - so there would be less drag.  I hope thats it, as the fix is proper amount of oil.

i got new belt today, will try after work following drain & refill of transmssion.  Is the correct level near the top of fill  opening?

Look at attached pic, fig 3 showing ring that friction holds pinions (similar to a clutch action). The viscosity does give some resistance, but doesn't affect the slip other than a dry situation.

post-8388-0-29068200-1424722000_thumb.pn

Edited by groundhog47

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tombr77

so if the 'limited slip' is not limiting the slip,,, that ring is worn?   i can't tell from the pictures where the friction surfaces are...

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stevasaurus

Tombr77...you never want to use belt grip on the transmission belt.  The belt is designed to fit down into the grooves of the pulleys and grab...but when you step on the clutch pedal, you are taking the tension off the belt (by a tension pulley under the guard) and the guard funnels the slack in the belt toward the engine pulley and the transmission input pulley stops.  This makes it possible for shifting the transmission without grinding gears.  You now need to take some mineral spirits and clean the grooves on all 3 pulleys (engine, trans and tension pulleys).  You might even want to wipe down your new belt.  If you bought the right size belt, that should fix your problems.  :)

 

Now for the limited slip.  The oil has nothing to do with it...except lubrication.  If you drain out your oil...take of the seat and fenders...use one of the seat bolt holes to re-fill.  Use 90wt oil and fill until the oil comes out the fill hole located by (I think) left rear axle.  About 2 1/2 to 3 pints.  The spring keeps the pinions (which are free floating...not on a post) in their respective places.  If the spring was broke, you would know it by the grinding sound and possibly locked up trans.  This is not posi-traction like on a car.  If you want to find out if yours is working...put the front of your horse against a tree with the rear wheels on something slippery...like ice.  Both wheels should turn...all of the other wheel horse "stick shift" tractors would just have one wheel spinning.:)

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stevasaurus

Take a look at this video...this is the 10 pinion limited slip differential..:)

 

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groundhog47

so if the 'limited slip' is not limiting the slip,,, that ring is worn?   i can't tell from the pictures where the friction surfaces are...

Fig 3, that ring part. It fits very snugly against the pinions. The pinions turn the gear affixed to axel. Basically I would say the ring is just a powerful resistance against rotation of pinions, sorta the inverse if you were to grab the chuck of a drill to stop or close/open it Inside free and immovable on rotation but starts drawing closed with resistance from hand. Prob bad analogy. I believe if it is badly worn, broken, or just lost spring it would be ineffective. Did you look at Steve's on the limited slip. He makes it look easy getting that ring in, but it is STOUT. I've not run mine, only assembled diff. 

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stevasaurus

Gerry, I think you are pretty much, right on.  :)  How are you doing Mate??

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tombr77

update --

 I drained tranny oil, very dirty & not enough  - so it was low.   but not milky   :) .  Refilled with 80-90W, couldnt find 90W without the 80  ...

Put on new drive belt.   Old one was worn enough to look like 3/8 in rather than 1/2.   I think that fixed the drive chugg, but i couldnt tell as my [ oringinal 1967] front tires have finally given up the ghost & went flat, with severe cracking. [ tube herniating....] so a pair of 16 x 6.5 x 8 are on the way as i couldnt find 16x5.5 x8 and another thread on this great forum recommended going with the 6.50 in there place.  When they come i'll know for sure.

 

As for the limited slip -- i've been plowing snow, and on inclines i have been fighting single wheel spinning. -- if either gets on anything slippery i'm stuck with one tire spinning.  which is think is equivalent to the test you recommended.  It looks to me like the ring applies pressure to both of the 'pinion holders', so it seems that surface would wear over time.  but i didnt see 'silver' powder in the old oil....

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tombr77

new belt fixed the 'chugg chugg. :)  .  But limited slip differential is not limiting slip.

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stevasaurus

Personally, I would not worry about the limited slip.  It is probably just that the spring is weak and they do not make them any more...and they are expensive if you can even find one. The worst that happens...your differential acts like the one everyone else has.  As long as that spring is in tact, your differential is OK.  I would imagine that you can find a new spring, but it was not really a good design...they only used this trans for a few years.  You could fix your problem with chains on the rear tires, wheel weights, maybe governor adjustments...that kind of thing.  What do you think???  :eusa-think:   In other words, I do not think it ever worked as well as they were thinking it might.  Just my 2 cents.

Edited by stevasaurus
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groundhog47

Gerry, I think you are pretty much, right on.  :)  How are you doing Mate??

Great Steve and you? Very great also the way you help us all out on this tran stuff. I'd never tried it before seeing your instructional. :handgestures-thumbup:

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squonk

Great info! Looks like my Sqonkfest tractor 1267 has the 5060 trans also. Is this a confirmed limited slip? I know it's a plowin machine!

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groundhog47

Great info! Looks like my Sqonkfest tractor 1267 has the 5060 trans also. Is this a confirmed limited slip? I know it's a plowin machine!

On the 67 list it shows a 5060, and according to trans desc is only in Limited Slip version ? me too?

 

:party: And oh yes :hbd:

post-8388-0-90229900-1425057540_thumb.jp

Edited by groundhog47
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tombr77

Stevesaurus -

Already have wheel weights, chains slip worse on wet/slush pavement after bulk of snow removed. I also have a bucket of sand on a platform added to back.  It seems like once tires get warm from spinning, they are worse than 'first attempt' at hill....

I think i need special grippy rubber -- or that 'stick-um' spray wide receivers use on their hands....


{ i do know that about 12 years ago i was able to plow 4 inches of snow going up that hill....}

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stevasaurus

If you really want to get that Limited Slip working again.  I would send a "PM" to Mike "racinfool40" here on Red Square.  I am sure he will have a couple of good used springs for the differential.  You will have to drop and open that trans, but it is not hard to do.  I have videos rebuilding that particular trans and I am always here to help.  :)

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