1996 416 idiot owner

[Smlfrm 0]

Proud new owner of 1996 416. Was running but then I messed it up. The lever to the right (forward /reverse) was loose. So in a rush I turned the still connected battery over to get to the set screw instead of disconnecting the battery and it arced on the chassis. Leaving a small weld. I set the lever in position and then tried to start it but it wouldn't fire. So here are the symptoms. Starter spins but won't disengage. If I move a lever the starter will disengage. The tractor is really hard to push and therefore I think it's not in gear..

Brand new battery. Checked fuses. Haven't checked spark but feel like it's some safety switch possibly to do with the fact that it is not in neutral

Please help. Want to get her running and have fun.

Thanks in advance

[Trouty56 565]

A 416 has a series of lights on the dash that identify the various safety switches....  If the forward/reverse lever....DCL...is on the right side then you have a hydrostatic....there is not really a neutral gear setting rather a neutral position for the hydro....  Weird symptoms...probably will get some more questions so be prepared.  Like when you say will no  t disengage....the starter engages and keep turning the engine....the engine does not start....and to stop the starter you pull some lever...which lever????

 

Maybe say what tractor you have for sure...like year...complete model....and which engine does it have???  kohler or Onan??

 

Welcome to the forum....I'm not the one to help you with this....but don't worry....someone will....

[boovuc 1,090]

It is hard to push because it is a hydro tractor. To push an Eaton hydro, (700 or 1100), you MUST move the control lever to the forward most position then push it slowly. NOT doing this will damage the internals of the tranny over time. You are probably OK if you moved it a little and slowly. Go to the manuals section of the forum and download a copy of the manual. It will give you the do's and don'ts of ownership.

 

There should be a couple fuses under that battery behind the console. Check them....again with a volt/ohm meter. Also check for loose connections. Do check for spark as a bad safety switch will kill spark while allowing other circuits functioning as though everything is OK. 

[Smlfrm 0]

Thanks so much for response. Yes it is a 416 hydro. 1996 year 400 hrs or so. Ok so understand about it being hard to push. As far as the starter is concerned. When I turn the key for ignition, the starter spins and will keep spinning even though I have returned key to off position. By accident I found that while the starter is spinning and failing to respond to ignition module, that if I move the Dcl lever then that will stop the starter. When you say there is a neutral position on the hydro, could it be that it is not starting because I have not found neutral. And also how might that be related (or not) to the starter issue. The model number is 73423

[rmaynard 15,396]

...I turned the still connected battery over to get to the set screw...

 

 

I am curious. What set screw were you trying to get to? I don't know of any set screws in the motion control linkage.

 

I am currently working on a 73423. My problem is in the motion control, and have not seen any set screws.

 

I don't have any problem with the starter, but behind the upper dash panel is the neutral safety switch. This switch locks out the power to the starter, but I don't think it would have anything to do with the starter not stopping. The switch is located on the neutral stop bracket.

 

 

Your problem sounds more to me like electrical than mechanical. Take a look at the starter circuit in the wiring diagram below.

 

[boovuc 1,090]

I don't understand how the starter issue is related to the arching of the battery to ground unless you burned up the ignition switch. The other think that "could" have been affected due to the grounding could be the relay. Do all your idiot lights work when the switch is first turn on? Do any lights turn off or stay on after the switch is returned to "on" after trying to start? 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,022]

Here is the 1996 operator manuals

 

Download the one for your 73423

 

Garry

[MalMac 1,331]

Could have possibly fried the ignition switch to the start position. By moving the control lever it's breaking the circuit to the starter by moving out of the neutral position. Thus causing the starter to stop spinning. Just a thought got some weird symptoms going on here.

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Looking at the starter circuit diagram, with the key in the "start" position and the neutral safety switch in the neutral position, current should be flowing to the "starting relay", which in turn energizes the solenoid.  All of this is occurring, as the OP states that the starter is spinning.  The problem sounds like when the key goes to the "run" position, it is not opening the circuit to the "starting relay" as it should.  The OP states that by moving the hydro lever the starter stops, and this is because the neutral safety switch is working correctly (no starter action unless in neutral).  Instead of moving the hydro lever, turning on the PTO switch should also kill the starter.  Using the information we have so far, my thought would be that the either the ignition switch was internally damaged, and it is no longer electrically returning to "run" position, where it should break the current to the starting relay.  Possibly the switch was heat damaged and the return spring is no longer doing its job, and the contacts are held in place by the current flow until the neutral safety switch interrupts the flow.  If it can be done safely, I would turn the key and engage the starter, then try tapping the body of the key switch with a non-conductive item, such as the plastic handle of a screw driver, to see if the tapping opens the circuit in the key switch.  Don't hit any of the electrical terminals with a conductive element, our you could make more sparks.  While poking around, keep an eye out for wiring with melted insulation or burned connections at the electrical terminals under the control panel.  See if you smell anything burned at the control panel. 

 

I would suggest trying the above and report back your findings.  Once the starter is brought back under proper control then the no-spark issue can be worked on.

 

Rick