1996 416-H - Eaton 1100-062 Motion Control Problems

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

If you are hitting the brake and it slows down normally every time that eliminates the cam plate.

I would think either bushings on the rocker lever in the tunnel (less likely) or its where the lever connects in the dash. Im going to gueess the bottom of the motion control lever is not rotating properly (out of round or wallowed out).

[Martin 2,130]

Good point. After more thought I am leaning towards the column shifter and/or support as well being the problem...There are a couple nyliner bushings etc up there. Plus the linkage, pivot points etc.

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[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I have found that the motion control lever between the knees much more forgiving than the column control for sensitivity. I agree with Martin about the linkage's wear points. Matt's pedal kit might be an option.

Edited December 15, 2014 by shallowwatersailor

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Yea, I had some issues with the motion lever bushings but it was only on it for a bit. Bought matts foot pedal kit too.

[rmaynard 14,909]

...Bought matts foot pedal kit too.

 

...I agree with Martin about the linkage's wear points. Matt's pedal kit might be an option.

 

This problem should be able to be repaired fairly inexpensively. After all, I can't imagine that it was this way when new. If a few new parts and some adjustments don't fix it, then it's something internal in the transmission, and a $200.00 foot pedal kit is not going to make that go away.

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

This problem should be able to be repaired fairly inexpensively. After all, I can't imagine that it was this way when new. If a few new parts and some adjustments don't fix it, then it's something internal in the transmission, and a $200.00 foot pedal kit is not going to make that go away.

 

You mentioned that using the brake pedal makes it work every time, right?

 

The brake pedal just centers the MCL right at the "swivel" under the tunnel, so if the brake pedal works then the problem has to be towards the front/dash board side of that. In that case a foot pedal kit would solve it, as it connects straight to the motion control "swivel" in the tunnel. I do understand you want to get it working correctly first. I just mentioned it as an alternative if you DO find something worn in the dash area.

[rmaynard 14,909]

If I use the neutral/brake pedal to stop, it stops normally. If I pull or push the motion lever very gradually, I can return to neutral without the jerking.

 

 

What I meant by that is when you are moving forward and you want to stop, depressing the brake pedal does what it is supposed to. It returns the motion control to a neutral position quickly, and applies the mechanical brake.

 

Today I will replace the nyliner bushings where the motion lever goes through the dash and pivots at the bottom. I have ordered some new ball joint ends for the rods that connect all the linkage together.

 

If that doesn't fix it, then I am out of linkage options and will have to consider that something else is going on inside the transmission.

[dennist 139]

 

If that doesn't fix it, then I am out of linkage options and will have to consider that something else is going on inside the transmission.

I know there have been many posts, but maybe try what I was suggesting(if you have not).....before you consider something is going on wrong inside. Jack and support rear off the ground and unhook everything (cam,plate etc)off the pump arm, start tractor and just move the arm only. You should be able to see it work as it should through forward slowing down, neutral and reverse....all should be smooth and gradual gaining speed and reducing speed both directions.

That would be the starting place IMO, then work your way forward checking that it continues to function correctly each and every time you hook up another linkage/bolt till you get up through the column, one step at a time.

[rmaynard 14,909]

Dennis,

That is excellent information. Short of doing exactly what you suggested, I replaced the cam plate, cam, spring washers and friction washers. After doing so, and before connecting the linkage, I propped it up with wheels off the ground, started the engine, and moved the cam plate by hand. It smoothly transitioned from forward to neutral to reverse, etc.. Then I reconnected the motion control linkage, and made my adjustment for neutral by positioning the cam. I then tried the same thing that I did before with wheel off the ground, but this time using the motion control lever. It too worked smoothly, even though I had a little bit pf play. I tightened the spring washer nut just enough to keep the lever from moving on it's own.

 

Now we go to the actual test drive. Moving forward, the tractor goes from slow to fast smoothly, but when the lever is pulled back to slow it down again, that is when it's like I have put on the brakes. Going in reverse it works just fine until I move the lever toward neutral. The front wheels actually lift off the ground. 

 

As I said, there is a little play in the linkage and a bit of play in the bushings of the asy_cam_control 

 

so new nyliners are going in there and the lever. 

 

Linkage parts are coming from McMaster tomorrow, and nyliner bushings are coming from Jack's Small Engine tomorrow or Wednesday. Nothing more is being done until then,

 

Other than that, I figured out what the actual problem was with the starter. One of the wires came loose and was intermittently make and breaking contact with it's connector.

 

 

[bobert94 38]

Bob just in case u have'nt come across this yet there is a plate below the dash  It has a neutral safety swich & a guide plate for the motion control lever.  You should have to stop at neutral & push motion control lever down for reverse. This plate could be loose or out of time with the cam on the trans. Just something else to check. The previous owner of my 520 modified this so u didnt have to push lever down for reverse!

[rmaynard 14,909]

That plate is in place, and appears to be tight. When I hit the stop between forward and reverse, I am in neutral. I don't have to press down much to get it in reverse, but it's not a matter of me accidentally hitting reverse, it's just the act of stopping the forward motion or reverse motion that jerks the tractor.

That plate is going to get some attention though when the other parts come in.

[PaulC 341]

just for your reference when I purchased my 1990 312-H with the motion control lever between the legs it was very jerky and annoying compared to my 87 312-A with the eaton 700. I didn't mess with the linkage much because I hated the whole setup compared to my 312-A. I decided to buy one of matts kits installed it and from that point on my tractor has been smooth as butter!! it is an expensive purchase so I understand your reluctance but after biting the bullet I have been extremely happy.

[rmaynard 14,909]

Paul,

I understand what you are saying, and I did have the opportinity to see Matt's foot pedal setup at the last Wheel Horse show. After seeing it, I drove a 520-H with the kit installed. It worked well, but it's not as nice as the factory setup on my John Deere X-300, but it is much better than the hand controls on the horses. I had a 1972 Charger 10 with a Sundstrand transmission. Even as ragged out as that tractor was, the transmission worked great. I sold it to a friend who cleaned it up for his 7 year old grandson. He drives it around like a pro.  I can't believe that the Eaton 1100 can't be made to work as well.

 

However, having said that, it is my intention to make this 416-H work like it is supposed to. Then and only then will I consider the foot pedal kit.

[PaulC 341]

I totally get it Bob and I just thought I would mention it to you in case you haven't had any exposure to matts kit. I agree with the thought that these wonderful machines could have never left the dealer operating that way so you should be able to get it back to being right. For me I didn't like the 1990 setup compared to the older like I stated so it made more sense for me to just upgrade although I was a bit leary. I too felt like you and was worried there was potential for something to be wrong inside of the transmission but fortunately once I got his kit installed all was well!!

 

Good luck im sure you will get it back to tip top shape!!

[rmaynard 14,909]

UPS man just came and left me a bag of nyliner bushings, and new adjustable rod ends. Now if the darned rain would just stop...

 

...got to finish rearranging the garage...

[rmaynard 14,909]

Okay, here's an update. I started taking the motion control linkage apart to inspect the neutral postion plate. This is a picture of the ARM-CONTROL. This is the piece that is pinned to the motion control rod, and rides in the neutral positon plate (BRKT-CONTROL), and also trips the neutral safety switch. The plate has some wear, but this part is in really bad shape.

 

 

Now, before I do anything else, I will try to get a new one of these. I'm assuming that in order to remove the motion control rod, the steering wheel needs to be removed.

[rmaynard 14,909]

Looks like this part is quite expensive. Does anyone have a good used one? It is apparently used on 300, 400, & 500 series. I'll put up a wanted ad if I don't get any responses here.

 

EDIT: Wanted ad has been placed.

Edited December 24, 2014 by rmaynard

[Cable 179]

Bob, one of my horses is a 1996 520H.  Since you are not too far from me you might want to stop by and compare linkage operation and free movement.  I don't think your issue is with the cam. 

 

One problem the 1993 had was soft bolts in the uni-drive.  When they stretch and work loose the tractor can jerk.  I think there are four of them. Eventually they can lock up the transmission.  Metal fragments can get where they don't belong and mess up the lift control valve. I know about this as it happened to my '93.

 

I replaced my drain plug with a pipe plug drilled to hold a magnet.  It grabs the ferrous crap and holds it just like in a car.  Follow the fluid path in the manual and you will see a lot happens before the filter.

 

Good luck and merry Christmas

Edited December 24, 2014 by Cable

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Looks like this part is quite expensive. Does anyone have a good used one? It is apparently used on 300, 400, & 500 series. I'll put up a wanted ad if I don't get any responses here.

 

EDIT: Wanted ad has been placed.

 

Bob! I have that part and it is in good shape. I am converting my 520 to a C series so I have those lever parts. I will ship it back asap with the rest of the stuff.

[mrc 727]

hi maynard,   IMO when wheelhorse went from the long dash mounted motion control lever to the column mount they screwed up. i find it awkward to use. earlier this year i installed a foot pedal kit on a 416H and eliminated the column mounted MCL. much better!   there is even a slot in the lower dash for the rod that goes from the foot pedal to the linkage under the dash.  clearly wh knew how to have a foot pedal and they should have went to that design.  best of luck  mike in mass.

[rmaynard 14,909]

hi maynard,   IMO when wheelhorse went from the long dash mounted motion control lever to the column mount they screwed up. i find it awkward to use. earlier this year i installed a foot pedal kit on a 416H and eliminated the column mounted MCL. much better!   there is even a slot in the lower dash for the rod that goes from the foot pedal to the linkage under the dash.  clearly wh knew how to have a foot pedal and they should have went to that design.  best of luck  mike in mass.

 

Thanks. Once I get the problem solved, I may consider a foot operated system. Like I said, I know this is not the way it came from the factory or there would have been a lot of unsold hydros.

[rmaynard 14,909]

Bob, one of my horses is a 1996 520H.  Since you are not too far from me you might want to stop by and compare linkage operation and free movement.  I don't think your issue is with the cam. 

 

One problem the 1993 had was soft bolts in the uni-drive.  When they stretch and work loose the tractor can jerk.  I think there are four of them. Eventually they can lock up the transmission.  Metal fragments can get where they don't belong and mess up the lift control valve. I know about this as it happened to my '93.

 

I replaced my drain plug with a pipe plug drilled to hold a magnet.  It grabs the ferrous crap and holds it just like in a car.  Follow the fluid path in the manual and you will see a lot happens before the filter.

 

Good luck and merry Christmas

 

Bruce,

I hope that is not the problem. I drained the oil and only got 3 quarts even though the dipstick said full. That must have been what was in the transaxle and filter. I guess there has to be a way to get more out that I'm missing. Could there be more in the pump and hydro lift? Can this system be flushed?

 

What I got out was pretty clean. I probed it with a magnet and did not get any ferrous hangers-on. 

Oh, and Merry Christmas to you as well!

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I think it's pretty common to only get a few quarts out. The rest is in the filter, lines, pump, valve, cylinder, etc. (in fact i think i read that in a manual somewhere.)

I think the best you can do without a complete disassembly is to tell with fresh, run it for a few minutes and change again.

You will have diluted the old stuff enough to not make much difference.