HokieAg07 129 #26 Posted October 20, 2014 Well if you guys are saying everything looks correct, I guess I will try again with a 141" and see if I can roll it over the input sheave. It just seems way to tight to even attempt that and of course I didnt want to ruin a belt and not be able to return it if need be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KyBlue 655 #27 Posted October 20, 2014 If you need I can try and get some video of putting the belt on mine if you want... Putting the tiller on is a art... Lots of practice. Oh and a floor jack... :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #28 Posted October 20, 2014 Here is how I do it. Put the belt on the tiller and under the rear idler. Put the belt on the PTO. RAISE the tiller off the ground with the lift. It shortens the belt just enough so that you can roll it it over the idler pulleys. When I put the tiller on a month ago, I was struggling to get the belt under the idlers. Then it dawned on me how I did it in the past. BTW, the first time I put the tiller on it took me 90 minutes and that was after I had the rock shaft installed. Now I can get it on or off in under 30 minutes! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groundhog47 347 #29 Posted October 20, 2014 Eyeballin all your setup looks correct (hitch, pulleys, and draw point) if pulleys are correct size. As for application of belt, the previous suggestions make perfect sense. I see or appears you are in the correct path/rotation potential once get very top of belt in V pulley on idler/mule. Haven't gotten back to measure pulleys yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #30 Posted October 20, 2014 According to the pictures posted you are routing your belt wrong. The belt should split the PTO bail. V side of the belt fronm the front of the PTO goes straight down under v pulley. Back side of belt from the back of the PTO goes in front of the flat pulley. Run belt under flat pulley on tiller the walk the belt over the large v pulley on tiller Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dennist 139 #31 Posted October 20, 2014 According to the pictures posted you are routing your belt wrong. The belt should split the PTO bail. V side of the belt fronm the front of the PTO goes straight down under v pulley. Back side of belt from the back of the PTO goes in front of the flat pulley. Run belt under flat pulley on tiller the walk the belt over the large v pulley on tiller Actually, he has is routed correctly.....you may not see that the hoop is un hooked at top and resting toward the engine, I believe he will be all set once he gets the belt and tries another method of installing it. The reason it looks like that is because the front was pictured earlier as he tried to make it work the other way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KyBlue 655 #32 Posted October 20, 2014 Actually, he has is routed correctly.....you may not see that the hoop is un hooked at top and resting toward the engine, I believe he will be all set once he gets the belt and tries another method of installing it. The reason it looks like that is because the front was pictured earlier as he tried to make it work the other way. Exactly.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HokieAg07 129 #33 Posted October 20, 2014 So, go back and grab that Gates belt or pony up the cash for the Toro? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groundhog47 347 #34 Posted October 21, 2014 So, go back and grab that Gates belt or pony up the cash for the Toro? How long is belt you have or is that the 141+ you mentioned. I'm cheap, frugal, penny pincher what ever term used and would go for least expensive best quality. The members here did teach me on drive belts, the cheap gets you a stallion that acts like a burr under saddle when ya take off...even slow clutch out, but here we are talking fully engaged, gummy, grabbing, always tight while on, belts. Stretch factor...who knows for certain. But if that doesn't work at least you only have a $20 gripe instead of $70. Please at least if not already done and old one above fair condition, compare length before hand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KyBlue 655 #35 Posted October 21, 2014 Its hard to see but I have the OE belt ... it's not just a belt ... it's coated in something to help it grip ... No more than a tiller gets used by me, I'll probably never have to buy another belt for it.. From page one in regards to your belt question .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bubbacola 8 #36 Posted October 24, 2014 I route the belt on pto, idler pulley, and spring loaded pulley in front. Then in back I route belt on idler pulley start belt on big pulley and turn til belt is on.My belt is 141 inches long.. Only thing I see that may not be problem is my is 1 cyl. yours is 2cyl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
64s 83 #37 Posted October 24, 2014 Get the Toro belt. I've only used my tiller once so far, but the way I installed the belt was to first route it around the tiller pulleys, then the PTO, and last the mid idlers, BUT I did not have the idlers installed. the right side was in postion, I put the belt on, and then raised the left side which put the tension on the belt. It was the only way I could figure out and worked fine for the 2 1/2 hrs of tilling. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #38 Posted October 24, 2014 One thing that Bubbacola said got me to thinking. The position of the v grove pulley on the mid hitch needs to be different between a single and a twin cylinder engine. There are two holes in the bracket where the v-pulley is mounted. On a twin, the pulley should be in the hole closest to the idler. On a single, it should be in the hole furthest from the idler. There is about a one inch difference between the two mounting holes. I cannot tell from KyBlue's pix which hole the pulley is mounted but it is worth a check. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,678 #39 Posted October 25, 2014 did you ever measure the belt you had to see if it was a 141 inch belt and not miss packaged Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groundhog47 347 #40 Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) From what I just perused, the belt length you mention, 141..., seems correct. The tillers I viewed seem to all use same belt in that age span. I'll try and get sizes of idlers have found to be correct and age cross reference to see if near same across years. Some old ones are cast but should keep size same. Couldn't find where someone got me the first references (size) on idler MW8821. I'm sure you are more adept at all this than me, but is the axel attachment the single slot old style? Saw one newer that had front and back notches??? Finally got pulleys measured: Mule/Idler assy Flat groove 2 1/2"od, V groove 4 1/2" od; Tiller Idler 3 1/4" od, Main Drive V groove 9 1/2"od. Edited October 25, 2014 by groundhog47 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KyBlue 655 #41 Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) One thing that Bubbacola said got me to thinking. The position of the v grove pulley on the mid hitch needs to be different between a single and a twin cylinder engine. There are two holes in the bracket where the v-pulley is mounted. On a twin, the pulley should be in the hole closest to the idler. On a single, it should be in the hole furthest from the idler. There is about a one inch difference between the two mounting holes. I cannot tell from KyBlue's pix which hole the pulley is mounted but it is worth a check. Mine only has one hole. For the time period of my tiller and idler setup, they didn't have any twins... A single lung 16 HP kohler was the biggest you could get unless you stepped up to the D series. So there wasn't any need for the two holes. Also my idler is a copy not genuine wh. Edited October 25, 2014 by KyBlue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HokieAg07 129 #42 Posted October 25, 2014 Thanks for all the help guys, I switched the v pulley location on the mid idler set up and was successful. Following the install instructions in the OM, I had it in the correct hole for a twin cylinder 400/500 series tractor but nevertheless, it worked great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #43 Posted October 25, 2014 Now you can start having fun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live4outdoors 151 #44 Posted October 26, 2014 I have this same setup on a little older tractor, the only belt that will work is the expensive toro number belt, I tried everything around it via a dealer near me and nothing else worked, toro has the size patented according to the dealer. The belt goes on tight, put it over the big rear pulley on tiller last it's easier to spin around the bigger pulley and check your bolt for the spring placement that it's not pulling the mule drive too tight, if I recall I had to put a bolt in the frame to shorten it up can get you pics tommorow of the bolt placement that works for the mule drive spring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HokieAg07 129 #45 Posted October 26, 2014 Very pleased with how the tiller worked. Like I said, I do not understand the original problem, I had the mid idler set up per the instructions in the OM. Did the exact opposite and it worked great. I will confirm that the Gates 6686BR is a viable option for those looking for an alternative to the 110256 Toro. The Gates is about $40 retail at Napa and is originally a John Deere mowing deck application. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bubbacola 8 #46 Posted October 27, 2014 Is it Green? if so it will work fine.. I use Gates power grip I think they are called. They are green and I think they work as good as Toro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #47 Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) One thing that Bubbacola said got me to thinking. The position of the v grove pulley on the mid hitch needs to be different between a single and a twin cylinder engine. There are two holes in the bracket where the v-pulley is mounted. On a twin, the pulley should be in the hole closest to the idler. On a single, it should be in the hole furthest from the idler. There is about a one inch difference between the two mounting holes. I cannot tell from KyBlue's pix which hole the pulley is mounted but it is worth a check. Thank you for this post. I was about to give up, since I knew I had the right belt, had installed the tiller correctly, and routed the belt correctly, but the belt was still too short. Switched positions, and it worked. I had put a bolt in the frame ahead of the mid pulley to attach the idler spring, and the belt kept coming off. I was searching for another spot to attach the spring and noticed a hole in the engine mounting plate, which solved that issue. Just goes to show what a valuable resource this forum is. Edited June 20, 2015 by WNYPCRepair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
