slammer302 2,154 #1 Posted October 15, 2014 I've been reading sum old threads trying to figure out what trans would be in the 1970 raider 10 I just bought and from what I can tell it should be a 10 pinion limited slip trans but what I'm not sure of is this considered a good thing from what I've read the 8 pinion is better than the 10 I normally dont really care as long as it works but I would like to know the difference Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #2 Posted October 15, 2014 10 pinion was a "limited slip" diff. It is not considered as strong as the 8 pinion, but consensus is that if you are just using this tractor for normal things (i.e. not pulling) it shouldnt be a problem. Jack up the rear end, put it in neutral and spin one tire. If the other tires spins the same direction you have a 10 pinion. If it spins opposite, you have a 4 or 8 pinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #3 Posted October 15, 2014 Yes, my paper work says that you do have the WH # 5073...10 pinion limited slip differential. If you are just using the horse for what it was designed for, you will be fine. The guys that use their horses for pulling at shows will tear them up...that is why they like the 8 pinion differential. There are some real good old threads that talk about the 10 pinion differential. That horse looks to be in good shape. The real difference between them...the 10 pinion has 10 pinions that "float" in the differential housing and there is a "spring" in between the pinions that keep them in place. The pinions in the 8 pinion differential are mounted on shafts between the housing plates that hold them in place. So.....if you are sitting on ice and only 1 tire is spinning and you are not going anywhere...you have the 8 pinion differential. If you are sitting on ice and both wheels are spinning, you have the 10 pinion differential (if that spring is working like it is supposed to). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #4 Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks that's what I wanted to know the tecky 10hp is not running I'm going to put a good running k241 Kohler that I'm going to put on it and use it for mowing and pulling a lawn trailer around 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #5 Posted October 15, 2014 If you want...check out this thread...the 1st video shows the 10 pinion differential and the spring thing I am talking about... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #6 Posted October 16, 2014 Well I jacked it up and turned the wheels they both spin in the opposite direction I'm guessing the spring is messed up it trys to hold both wheels but when I hold one the other keeps spinning but you have to hold it pretty tight to get it not to spin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #7 Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) It may not be messed up...it is not really a Posi-traction...just resembles one. I think the best way to tell is wait for some snow and ice...put the nose of the horse against a tree and put the horse in gear (1st)...low idle...don't want to knock down the tree. If both wheels are spinning forward...the limited slip is working. It may also be possible that your transmission is not the one that came with the horse. You have to remember that it is still a differential...1 wheel will turn in the opposite direction when turned...it has to work like that so you can steer the horse. The limited slip actually kicks in when ...say the right hand side tire is spinning on ice. In the 8 pinion differential, you will have to do the Flintstone thing and put your feet down to walk your horse past the bad spot. The 10 pinion "limited" slip would have both tires spinning in the same direction on the ice...you may still have to do the Flinstone thing to un-stick your horse if both tires are spinning. The 8 pinion differential will never have both wheels spinning on ice...the one wheel spins only if you stop the other wheel. Does that make since?? Edited October 16, 2014 by stevasaurus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #8 Posted October 17, 2014 That makes more sense Steve... thats what I get for taking things at face value. Thanks! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #9 Posted October 17, 2014 Not arguing as Steve knows his trans but my dads D160 and my GT 1142 would spin both tires on ice,mud, wet grass but that was only if you are going straight. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #10 Posted October 17, 2014 Desko...I think the "D" series horses use Sunstrand transmissions...while I have looked at some schematics of those, I have no idea what they look like inside or how they work. You will not get an argument from me on those. It's taken me about 4 years messing with the Wheel Horse transmissions to understand them, and I am still learning those. I would put myself in the category somewhere between "I have an idea" to "Knowledgeable "...that makes me "extremely dangerous". 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #11 Posted October 17, 2014 Yes it uses a sunstrand and has an 8 pinion diff and I think that makes most of us extremely dangerous! :) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #12 Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It would be nice to have them opened side by side and check it out...that is the only way to see if thing work. Figure the odds on having both of those open at the same time...or any of the others for that mater....that is what we are trying to do. Almost impossible. Here is an idea...if you open a Sunstrand...we could take measurements of the gears and compare between Mike and me and you and maybe get an idea of what is possible. Welcome aboard...it is going to take a few more members to really see what is possible. Pictures would be required. Edited October 17, 2014 by stevasaurus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #13 Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I have an 8 pinion diff open and have had a 4 pinion open (both 8 speeds) but not side by side and I've never had a 10 pinion to open up so yea id say its impossible. Edited October 17, 2014 by Desko 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #14 Posted October 17, 2014 Put some pictures up...or maybe we should start another thread...Let's see what you got there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #15 Posted October 17, 2014 If your talking to me id post pictures as I know how to get them to the computer but don't know how to take them down to 1mgb maybe I can email some to you to put up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #16 Posted October 17, 2014 Desko...if you were RED, you could just upload them from your computer. Open up a Photo Bucket account (free) upload your photos and then copy the (IMG Code) and paste into your post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #17 Posted October 18, 2014 Made an account but don't know how to upload (I'm not computer savy) ill try in the morning I have the pictures though and I wish I was a supporter but don't have a PayPal or anything to buy the membership Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,238 #18 Posted October 18, 2014 you click on upload in photo bucket and will take you to your pictures on your computer...find your picture that you want to upload and click on it and click on open...it will upload it. Go back into the library and find it...hold the mouse over it and the window should open...high lite "IMG" copy...go to your post and paste. One thing...if you just opened up an account with Photo Bucket and upload pictures...be sure to make a file with a name to store the pics...like "My 702" or "catch all" because if you move the pictures later...you loose the link you posted in Red Square. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondred 63 #19 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure why the 8 pinions would be so called stronger than the 10 pinions. I can see that they are made totally different but... I believe they use the same axle gear and 1 1/8" axles. ( other than one axle being longer than the other), so with that being said , I have 5 pinions driving each axle gear instead of 4. Oddly enough, the ten pinion diff. housing uses 5 bolts that go through 5 of the pinion gears on one side only, and the other 5 "float" in the....carrier? for lack of better words. Plus the diff. bull gear is a lot beefier. The spring seems to put radial pressure against the pinions to disallow them from rotating easily. Maybe what actually breaks in these are the aluminum end caps from the diff. bull-gear pinion pressure. Maybe one of you machinists out there could make steel ones....hmmm? Edited October 23, 2014 by diamondred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desko 552 #20 Posted October 23, 2014 The problem with the 10 pinion diff is that the pinions are hollow and the spring wears out over time while the 4 and 8 pinion have solid pinion gears and are held in place by the end cap but like you said the 8 and 10 pinion both have 1 1/8 axles so they share that aspect just not the bull gear but for the most part 4,8and some 10's have the same front gearing meaning it comes off the cluster shaft instead of the brake shaft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
