AMC RULES 36,945 #1 Posted August 29, 2014 Didn't have a puller on hand, so I decided to give the old "use another hub" method a try today. Ended up cranking on it a for good twenty minutes, and sweating like a stuck pig, to ultimately get it to pull off. While it's no surprise to see it soaked in oil, as the leaky axle seal was the whole reason I wanted it removed in the first place... I am surprised at the amount of effort it took, using a cheater on my 1/2" drive, this thing fought to the bitter end... well past the key way to the very end of the axle. So, I'm wondering, is it normal, for the old accumulated oil to act like some kind of super adhesive glue in there, or could something else going on in there that I'm not aware of...using a woodruff key too big, or the key way wollowed out, maybe? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,947 #2 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I'm surprised with all that oil on there it fought you that hard. I had to remove a hub on Ezra and shattered one of my super whoopie pullers. That whimpy 1/2 ratchet won't last too long like that. I use a bearing separator behind the hub now and a big honkin gear puller from work to grab the separator and a impact gun to turn the screw. Takes 2 people to hold the puller in place until the screw gets tight but the hub comes off. Clean it all up good. It's possible that hub was removed before and the inside was burred up a bit from that. Get a little flap wheel on a shaft that will fit into a drill and clean up the hub bore. It may also have been rusty and "swollen up" before all that oil leaked out. P.S. Those hubs are real fun when the trans is not on a tractor to hold it in place! Edited August 29, 2014 by squonk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geno 1,928 #3 Posted August 29, 2014 Wow what a job. The #1 thing that has made almost all of my jobs easier is hammer action. Steady pressure breaks things (or makes you sweat + cuss more) while an impact pops things right apart. Do you have a 1/2" impact Craig? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,130 #4 Posted August 29, 2014 Craig, i think what you experienced is par for the course with hubs that are tight on the axle and haven't been removed very much if at all through their life. better that way than loose on the axle..... the last one i did was for the 416 8 speed i just finished. i used much the same method as you (but with the later thicker hubs) and both sides fought me all the way for quite a few hours. i used mild heat, lots of pb blaster in both sides and through the set screw holes and slowly did it. every time i would get that hub loaded up with a 1/4 to 1/2 turn it would eventually move with a loud crack. it was slow going, but they finally came off in one piece and once the axle and hub were cleaned up and new keys installed, i had the two sweetest hub/axle combos in my collection....... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,130 #5 Posted August 29, 2014 heres the only pic i have and it was after the battle was won....... i did mine on the floor of the garage, trans apart from the frame as well, but it wasn't sitting on the tire though. now that would have been a challenge in itself..... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #6 Posted August 29, 2014 I don't get it either Craig...the only thing I can think of, maybe the end of the axle was mushroomed a little and then you are trying to pull the hub over that all the way. You would think that once you broke it loose, it would come off. You would like to tap it on a little first so you could file the axle end...but sometimes there is no room to do that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,130 #7 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) steve, i thought that was the case with mine, but there was no evidence that the axle end was ever beat on. still had the machining markings from the factory and i checked the axle measurement when it was cleaned up (emory cloth and scotch brite) and no mushrooming. i think just the corrosion alone was what was holding mine, it wasn't much and didn't pit the metal, but it was enough to make me sweat.... the keyway that was exposed to the elements was also slightly rusty and had crap in there. maybe that was part of the issue as well, as the key had to slide all the way through there..... Edited August 29, 2014 by Martin 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,947 #8 Posted August 29, 2014 I pull big pump impellers of shafts all the time.it doesn't take much grit to get in between the shaft and hub to lock things up tight. You would be surprised how much can get in between a shaft and hub even with a close tolerance. I've had to "save" $2000 brass impellers from being destroyed pulling them off. Like I said clean the hub bore good. You might find some small grooves worn into the bores from grit holding them on. If rust and gunk gets under the key it will swell and raise the key up out of it's groove 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,147 #9 Posted August 29, 2014 I do not have an answer, but i have several times been surprised how even after it starst to move it fights all the way off. Most gears/bearing etc. once they pop free come off easily....not so hubs. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geno 1,928 #10 Posted August 30, 2014 Quite a puller you have there, very nice. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,947 #11 Posted August 30, 2014 Gears and brgs like inside a trans will come easy after they start if the inside is pretty clean. Hubs are exposed to water and dirt and the grit gets in there and binds things up all the way off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #12 Posted August 30, 2014 You know? I'm thinkin' what the Squonk says is making scents here... I thought it was weird that the back of the woodruff key(closest to the trans)was curling up, out of it's channel... as the hub was backing off it. Upon closer inspection, I can see a ball of grit in there that was pushing it up against the hub. I think if you look inside of the hub...the pict tells the whole story here. Also, interesting how wet the axle is vs. the dry appearance of the hub bore. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geno 1,928 #13 Posted August 30, 2014 According to Squonk what he says alway makes cents. Maybe he's right. I always work these things back and forth. If they move out some, I drive them back, lubricating it to death in the process. On the really bad ones I'll take emery cloth and clean the inside that gets exposed, drive it back, clean the outside, repeat, repeat. I guess it helps break stuff up and get some of it out of there or at least moved around and broken up. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Molon_Labe 731 #14 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) You know? I'm thinkin' what the Squonk says is making scents here... I thought it was weird that the back of the woodruff key(closest to the trans)was curling up, out of it's channel... as the hub was backing off it. Upon closer inspection, I can see a ball of grit in there that was pushing it up against the hub. I think if you look inside of the hub...the pict tells the whole story here. Also, interesting how wet the axle is vs. the dry appearance of the hub bore. Yup, looks like the woodruff key ratcheted up and acted like a locking pawl. Kudos for getting it off in one piece. Edited August 30, 2014 by M_Bailey 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #15 Posted August 30, 2014 Exactly right... the more I pulled, the tighter it got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geno 1,928 #16 Posted August 30, 2014 That means it was hammertime. Now wheres that dancing smiley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,947 #17 Posted August 30, 2014 Yup. All that grit and that rust spot I see bound it up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can whlvr 991 #18 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I would not recommend beating on a hub,in or out,the retainer ring inside wont take much,i too have had hubs hold on till the end,so I made this homemade puller because I didn't have a spare hub,its a piece of 3/8 angle iron,and a 3/4 inch bolt and nut,welded the nut to it,drilled five holes that line up to the hub,tighten her up and put the torque to her,once it breake free I use the air gun the bolt is on backwards in the pic Edited August 30, 2014 by can whlvr 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marv 845 #19 Posted August 30, 2014 Geno, I would be concerned about damaging the axle snapring or ring groove in the axle opposite the one being hammered on. That would require going inside to fix it. Do you back up that axle with something before hammering? Marvin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marv 845 #20 Posted August 30, 2014 WHLVR, opps my finger must have been slow. Marvin oops. Spelling not too good either. Marvin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lane Ranger 10,495 #21 Posted August 30, 2014 Craig- but all and all that two hub method with bolts and nuts tightened works! PB Blaster helps if you turn axle (or can) and take out set screw/bolt on hub you are trying to remove and add a little over an hour or more. Those axles and hubs don't get removed very many times in their life. It is like trying to take your wedding ring off! It takes a while! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geno 1,928 #22 Posted August 30, 2014 Geno, I would be concerned about damaging the axle snapring or ring groove in the axle opposite the one being hammered on. That would require going inside to fix it. Do you back up that axle with something before hammering? Marvin Nope. I don't use a 2lb sledge either on a tractor this small. If the transmission won't hold up to a little hammering than we probably have a design problem. On large tractors, the 8 or 10 lb sledge comes out, haven't had a problem in 20 years doing this in my business on a very regular basis. If it's weged bad enough and you don't drive it back in to unlock it the trans would have to come apart anyway so I and customers usually opt for the trying the easiest and least expensive route and it hasn't failed yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandonozz 168 #23 Posted August 30, 2014 I'm in agreement with Squonk on this one as well. I know that you would think that oil would keep the shaft and hub wet and "lubricated" making it easier to get off even preventing rust but the flip side to that coin is all the dirt and grit it attracts and grinds into the small tolerances between the two and packs it tight over time. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meadowfield 2,545 #24 Posted August 30, 2014 Craig, Exactly the same as the hubs I pulled last week. The hubs had slid in, they had gradually burred the keyways. So when they were pulled the clean bit of hub had to be pulled over the burr, it takes tons of force to get them free! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #25 Posted August 30, 2014 Tons of force Mark. I'm thinkin' maybe a little anti-seize in there... wouldn't be a bad idea before putting them back on the axle? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
