312-8 Rattling, Bouncing Clutch Pedal

[jdleach 525]

Could not stand the rattling and slight bouncing of the clutch pedal anymore, and decided to address this issue last week. Have a small Toro dealer here in town, and ordered an OEM drive belt and idler. Prices were good at $14 for the pulley, and $27 for the belt. Too, I knew that these parts would work as well as the originals, and should last as long.

They came in yesterday, and since I can never wait to install a part, I tore into the Horse as soon as I got off work at midnight.

Was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that the belt and idler appear to be original. The idler is painted red, and is definitely a Wheel Horse pulley. The bearings were going south, and there was the beginnings of play. Also, there was some noise emanating from the pulley when spun. The belt on the other hand, looked virtually new. The "Wheel Horse" name was printed in white on the back side of the belt instead of impressed into the rubber as on the new one. I suspect this belt, along with the pulley, is factory.

All the guides looked to be in good shape, and properly positioned. Given the condition of the belt, I only replaced the idler, and put the tractor back together.

Although virtually silent now, the pedal still bounces slightly and rattles still.

My thinking is that either the old belt has become hard of otherwise defective in some manner that is not visible to the eye, or/additionally, the pedal has developed so much wear (the pedal bore is pretty badly worn) that this rattling will only be corrected by installing bushings. Too, there is supposed to be a wavy washer between the inside of the pedal and the frame to apply side thrust to the pedal. This washer may be broken.

Any thoughts?

[zieg72 209]

Change the belt, all your issues should go away

[WH nut 553]

• Nothing but the best for the old Horse OEM for the belts is a must

[jdleach 525]

Change the belt, all your issues should go away

Yeah, that is what I figure I will do first. Have seen belts that look fine, but have issues in operation before. If this belt is indeed original, it has had a good innings, and regardless of appearance, should be replaced anyway. Just was looking for some other opinions here. Thanks much Zig.

Besides, bushing the pedal, while something that needs done, will take a bit of time and effort, and is much more involved that just slapping on the belt.

[zieg72 209]

Yeah, that is what I figure I will do first. Have seen belts that look fine, but have issues in operation before. If this belt is indeed original, it has had a good innings, and regardless of appearance, should be replaced anyway. Just was looking for some other opinions here. Thanks much Zig.

Besides, bushing the pedal, while something that needs done, will take a bit of time and effort, and is much more involved that just slapping on the belt.

My 414-8 rattled bad, really didn't bother me much.  I went with a hydro drive pulley on the motor and of course it needed a longer belt.  I like you seen the OE belt in fine shape, but unlike you opted for a blue Kevlar TSC special because I really didn't know the right size to get.  Besides getting the ground speed I wanted to cut the grass in 2nd HI, the belt rattle was gone, a really nice by product of the exercise...

[Lagersolut 613]

I had a clutch pedal doing the same thing -  all the washers ( one bowed ) over the years wore through and fell off/out - the bowed washer keeps light pressure on the pedal - also installed grease fittings on both brake and clutch- the new washers solved my loose pedal .

 

They are still available - here's the breakdown of a 79 C-101 clutch pedal and washers .

 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=toro_consumer&mn=91-10K802%2C+C-101+8-Speed+Tractor%2C+1979&dn=810118R1-18R10020-0009

Edited July 13, 2014 by Golds-Red

[jdleach 525]

I went ahead and ordered the new washer set earlier this week for the clutch pedal, figuring that given the use the tractor has seen, I should just go ahead and replace them. While the pedal is off, I will tap it for a grease Zerk.

Installed the new idler, and of course it still bounces, albeit at a much lessened level. The rattling noises are not at the pedal itself, but at the back end of the clutch rod. While the tractor was idling, I reached under the fender pan, and grasped the trunnion in my hand. While holding the trunnion, I could feel the rhythmic jerking of the shaft that was in direct time with the engine. As has been said, although the belt looked pristine, it has no doubt begun failing, specifically be hardening in spots. When these hard sections cross over the idler, they cause the pulley to oscillate in time with the engine.

The new belt, along with the washer set, should make the tractor as smooth as new.

[chazm 412]

     "The new belt, along with the washer set, should make the tractor as smooth as new."

 

Have the same issue with my 314, keep us posted on the outcome...

[jdleach 525]

Installed the new belt after I got in from work this morning at around 2 AM (I must be a Wheel Horse nut to be slinging wrenches at 3 in the morning). The old belt, as previously stated, looks perfect. But when compared to the new belt, it felt stiffer, and was actually somewhat shorter. The numbers on the back of both belts were the same, so it is the correct size (also printed with "Wheel Horse" on the back).

Hmmm. In addition to the bouncing, I had noticed that the clutch had to be almost fully depressed to prevent clashing of gears.

After putting the belt on, and before attaching the guard, I started the tractor. The new belt barely vibrated as it rode around the sheaves. The idler oscillations had virtually ceased, and the rattle was gone. After I put the foot rest and guard back on, I tested the clutch operation. The pedal now only needs to be depressed about 1/3 to 1/2 way to completely disengage the transmission. Too, the operation of the pedal and clutch is very smooth.

Findings: Since both belts carried the same numbers, and were marked as "Wheel Horse", it is a fair bet bet to say they are the same, just separated by almost three decades in age. When compared to the new belt, the old belt had not only developed hard spots, but had shrunken in length. This makes sense, since we all know that rubber will shrink with time. Therefore, if you have a bouncy, rattling pedal, and the idler and all else appears good, replace the damned belt, regardless of appearance. Keeping it till it completely dies isn't worth the aggravation.

Problem solved.

[zieg72 209]

Installed the new belt after I got in from work this morning at around 2 AM (I must be a Wheel Horse nut to be slinging wrenches at 3 in the morning). The old belt, as previously stated, looks perfect. But when compared to the new belt, it felt stiffer, and was actually somewhat shorter. The numbers on the back of both belts were the same, so it is the correct size (also printed with "Wheel Horse" on the back).

Hmmm. In addition to the bouncing, I had noticed that the clutch had to be almost fully depressed to prevent clashing of gears.

After putting the belt on, and before attaching the guard, I started the tractor. The new belt barely vibrated as it rode around the sheaves. The idler oscillations had virtually ceased, and the rattle was gone. After I put the foot rest and guard back on, I tested the clutch operation. The pedal now only needs to be depressed about 1/3 to 1/2 way to completely disengage the transmission. Too, the operation of the pedal and clutch is very smooth.

Findings: Since both belts carried the same numbers, and were marked as "Wheel Horse", it is a fair bet bet to say they are the same, just separated by almost three decades in age. When compared to the new belt, the old belt had not only developed hard spots, but had shrunken in length. This makes sense, since we all know that rubber will shrink with time. Therefore, if you have a bouncy, rattling pedal, and the idler and all else appears good, replace the damned belt, regardless of appearance. Keeping it till it completely dies isn't worth the aggravation.

Problem solved.

Kinda what I said 6 days ago... Glad you get er fixed

[diamondred 63]

I might try a beefier spring. Or ... quite honestly, a light spring just to hold the peddle in the engaged position. Mine does the same thing, nature of the beast.

[jdleach 525]

"Kinda what I said 6 days ago... Glad you get er fixed"

I like to work through an issue methodically, and this thread and my posts were basically my ruminations on the problem written out. I figured other folks probably have the same issue, and this was to illustrate how to "work" the problem. I figured the belt was at least part of the problem, but wanted to inspect the entire clutch assembly as I went along. Too, I had never had a "large" Wheel Horse apart, so this was a learning experience for me also.

The one thing that actually surprised me, was that the old belt had shrank, and this caused the pedal to need to be fully depressed to shift gears. Common sense would lead one to believe an old belt to stretch. Obviously, that isn't always the case.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,513]

Sort of related - belt storage

 

Garry

[Racinbob 10,370]

Interesting service bulletin Garry. Thanks for linking to it. But now I've decided to store my new OEM belts in a different location. The drawer in the garage meets the 'no exposure to direct sunlight' but certainly not the 'below 85 degrees and below 70% humidity'. At least not in the summer.