Battery +s and -s...no pun intended...

[Hodge71 663]

So  its that time..I have been putting it off exponentially.... With much dread I went battery shopping today as I have 3 tractors that need new ones. I came home confused as all he** and with no batteries. Heres the issue I have....22NF as close to OEM as I can find. Its the exact dimensions required for the 1970 Charger 12 and then 1974 C-160 8 speed and probably for the 18 auto as well.... Exide 450 CA 390 CCA and heres the kicker $129 each!!!             After I picked up my jaw and found my wallet as it shot right out of my pocket and made a beeline for the front door of TSC, I kinda wondered around in a fog doing math and trying figure out how to add 129+129+129 and not end up with $387+tax and a mild coronary....then figuring $50 for each dead body I pick up and mumbling theres no way I can justify 8 dead people for 3 batteries.

 

I see a display with shall we call it option #2:  Same company (Exide) but these are called Lawn and Garden and look so small it should be on a rear engine rider. I find one with 420 CA and 350 CCA.... but the price a much more reasonable $44 each.... doing the math quickly I come up with only 3 dead bodies for 3 batteries...phew.... more palatable. The question I have for the powers that be is...What makes the big 22NF worth 130 buck with 450 CA and the little toy battery is 420 CA and only $44...teach me about these things so that I can make a wise decision. The last thing I want to do is buy 3 batteries that will only last year or not be big enough to crank these tractors over..... I would imagine that the bigger battery has more reserve capacity but not sure if its worth it and if I need any reserve capacity at all.....

Edited April 7, 2014 by hodge71

[doc724 924]

I have not been battery shopping in a year or so.  There are these so called "gel batteries" I have heard about that are big $.  I have yet to understand the attraction.  The last battery I bought was a Sears Diehard, U1 style and I paid under $60 with trade in.  420 amps is something that you would put in a car.  With only one or two cylinders in a tractor, I don't think you need near this capacity.  It does make a difference where you live and whether your machines are outside.  My winter machine is garaged and the temp inside rarely gets below 10F.  I pull the batteries from the other tractors in the winter and store them in the cellar on a battery minder.  When I had my first 314, I went through 3 batteries (including the factory one) in 15 years when I finally sold it.

[Martin 2,130]

how about the group 26 batteries?

 

 

got mine at napa last year, you might find they are cheaper than online if you go into the store. i paid $55 if I remember correctly...... still better than $129....

 

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Battery-NAPA-Power-65-Month/_/R-NBP6526_0399048038

[squonk 39,178]

Through my acct. at Napa I can buy a 6526 for $85 or a 5022NF for $95.00

[AMC RULES 36,961]

Probably cheaper to just buy another  with a good battery already in it. 

Less bodies to account for.    

[Martin 2,130]

Through my acct. at Napa I can buy a 6526 for $85 or a 5022NF for $95.00

 

thats more than the $79.65 online? and you have an account?

 

everything i buy in store is always cheaper than the online price. 

[Hodge71 663]

Probably cheaper to just buy another  with a good battery already in it. 

Less bodies to account for.    

I would do that Craig but only if it was a black hood C-165 or C-175 with a tiller on it...I NEED A TILLER TRACTOR!!!  Putting a 60x100 garden in here on the farm ...Although I would still need to buy batteries for the rest of the herd that needs them....and that would mean more trips to the morgue for bodies....

[squonk 39,178]

Buying online right from Napa is cheaper. My store is privately owned. The wharehouse sells the battery to the store and he has to mark it up too. If you can buy from a corporate store it's cheaper than a private store. It used to cause a lot of problems with customers. They couldn't understand why if they drove 30 miles it would save them 5 bucks

[Hodge71 663]

This isn't going according to plan...I was looking more for a reason as to why the 22NF was so much more expensive and what the differences were even though the L&G is half the size and the CCA are practically the same

Edited April 8, 2014 by hodge71

[Save Old Iron 1,564]

This isn't going according to plan...I was looking more for a reason as to why the 22NF was so much more expensive and what the differences were even though the L&G is half the size and the CCA are practically the same

 

Hodge, I'll take a shot at your question without giving you the weather forecast or my favorite recipe for scrambled eggs !!!

 

CCA is a 30 second measurement of how any AMPS the battery can delivery under certain environmental conditions. . Comparing the two batteries you talked about is like comparing an AA flashlight battery with a D cell battery. In near short circuit usage, both can deliver about the same amperage over 30 seconds. But what happens beyond that?

 

The D battery has more staying power due to it's physically larger size. This "staying power" is RC or RESERVE CAPACITY. If you can find the RC for both the batteries you mentioned, you will find them significantly different.

 

No way you (or anyone) needs 400+ CCA as your starter may only draw 50 - 100 amps max before burning out internal wiring and components. The more expensive battery has more and thicker plates inside allowing for a large CCA rating (many plates) and also a larger RESERVE CAPACITY (thicker plates).

 

So Chuck, then I should go out and find the largest RC battery available. Well no. If your tractor will not start in the first 30 seconds of cranking, you may need to investigate other issues with the engine. So all wrapped up, lawn and garden applications do not really need large RC or CCA with a properly tuned engine. The physically larger battery just has more material to degrade before it dies. You interpret this as longer life because of the meager requirements needed to start a small single cylinder engine.

 

I believe the success folks have with larger batteries is strictly due to more / thicker plates that take longer to degrade. That's it. Those who can get 5+ years from batteries are just exercising common sense in using and storing the batteries. Don't run a battery dead until your starter stops cranking. Once a battery goes below 10 volts - its functionally dead and irreversible damage starts on the lead plates. Zapping the dead battery on a 200+ amp charger does more irreversible damage with plate warp, etc.

 

Don't drain a battery below 10 volts - stop cranking and SLOWLY recharge it. Don't store it uncharged in the cold as electrolyte will freeze and warp plates. Common sense stuff that few of us practice. So we see each other at TSC every 2 years and fight over the last LG battery with the proper terminal configurations.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[Save Old Iron 1,564]

Some good reading

 

http://batteryuniversity.com/

[rmaynard 14,961]

thats more than the $79.65 online? and you have an account?

 

everything i buy in store is always cheaper than the online price. 

I place a "hold for pickup" at NAPA online, then go the store. My price is always about 20 to 30% lower than what is shown online. However, many of NAPA's prices have gone up drastically in the last year.

[squonk 39,178]

SOI I've been preaching that for years. I see all these guys wanting 400 + amp battery's for their GT 's. And then expect those 400+ amps to flow thru those puny starters and 6ga. worn out cables!

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[squonk 39,178]

Napa has multiple tiered pricing . Yo have Napa Atlanta which sells to DC's. If the DC owns a store it ships parts there and treats it as more storage and sell at a certain mark up. It sells parts to privately owned stores at a mark up and then the private store has to mark it up again to keep the lights on. That's one way you can go to 2 stores and get 2 prices. DC's try to sell there stores to private ind. to make their money quick and have someone else pay to store and keep inventory. We used to buy pallets of rotors pads ect. Direct from the manufacturer to save money. Also a private store can offer different brand items and cut deals while a corporate store can't

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[Hodge71 663]

SOI I've been preaching that for years. I see all these guys wanting 400 + amp battery's for their GT 's. And then expect those 400+ amps to flow thru those puny starters and 6ga. worn out cables!

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So from what you both are saying...the factory put batteries in that were way too big and not needed. I guess Im gonna be buying the little tiny ones and shoving 2x4s and plywood in so they dont vibrate to death

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

So from what you both are saying...the factory put batteries in that were way too big and not needed. I guess Im gonna be buying the little tiny ones and shoving 2x4s and plywood in so they dont vibrate to death

 

Keep in mind that battery tech has improved in the 20-40 years these things have been made. That's why the "box" is so big on these machines. Cranking amp numbers are a little bit of marketing black magic, and as others have stated, size of battery is often directly correlated with reserve capacity.

 

Long story short: with a well tuned, maintained tractor (especially when not in extreme climates) you don't need anywhere near that size of battery.

 

I think the reason that they went bigger is because with a larger battery the starting and charging cycle is less stressful and could possibly make them last longer when not cared for properly.

Edited April 8, 2014 by bmsgaffer

[Martin 2,130]

I'll keep buying the right size battery and leave the 2 x 4s for home projects.....

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[Save Old Iron 1,564]

So from what you both are saying...the factory put batteries in that were way too big and not needed. I guess Im gonna be buying the little tiny ones and shoving 2x4s and plywood in so they dont vibrate to death

Unfortunately. if you start going too small, you loose RESERVE CAPACITY by virtue of smaller physical size. Reserve capacity is necessary if you are going to consider additional lighting or adding electrical accessories such as electric lifts.

 

 

Did the factory use batteries that were way too big?

Probably, for 90% of buyers who only cut their 1/2 acre in the summer and store the tractor over the winter.

Im sure the conversation on the design floor was centered around the fact that a "too big" battery was also a very common battery, used widely and available widely in the automotive market and as such was less expensive to purchase in bulk than "the right battery".

 

A;ways go with RESERVE CAPACITY in the LGT arena. CCA is secondary and certainly anything near 400 CCA is useless unless it happens to get you a better reserve capacity.

 

Good luck finding RESERVE CAPACITY ratings. This is the one true way to tell the good from the marginal and therefore is the rating most likely not to be listed for a battery.

[squonk 39,178]

For your into. A 5022NF has a 58 min. Reserve capacity and a 6526 has a 55 min capacity. The higher grade group 25 (26replacement) is 95 min