uh oh.....i think i have a problem with K181S rebuild

[Mr. 856 170]

Does anyone here offer "phone tech support"???!!! LOL I would love to talk to a person who knows these engines a hell of a lot better then I do. I have questions to ask that I could have answered probably easily if I could explain my issues.

 

Say I was to have my timing on the cam/crank off a tooth in one direction or the other would the engine run? would it run well if it would run? what and how would that effect adjusting the points? Here is why I ask...................................with a timing light I couldn't see the mark on the flywheel. Put some whiteout on the line and tried again. still couldn't pick it up.light flashing fine and engine idling rather nicely. So I shut it down, take the points cover off and start turning the engine over by hand. The way i'm reading the manual is that the points should be starting to open when the "S" mark is in the middle of the site hole. It appears my points are opening when the "S" mark is about to exit the hole and that is what is making me think I have the internal timing off. I could be reading into more then I need to or maybe im right on track. that is what I don't know and really need some answers for. Will the engine run, idle and rev up rather nicely if I was off on the timing inside the engine? The thought o taking this engine back down again is making me get cold sweats.

 

Kohler K181 guru's I need your help. If there is anyone out there who would mind if I picked there brains for a few minutes over the phone PM and we can exchange numbers or whatever. Anyone here live close to suffield, CT? id buy the beer and pizza for anyone willing to stop by my place and help me figure out If I got it right or wrong. Im so excited to use this tractor this spring/summer for some yard projects, etc that I really hope I can skip a 2nd tear down.

[Nathanielperz 150]

Did you try kicking it?    haha don't do that... I have no idea but I would try asking AMC he has helped me with a lot...

[Desko 552]

I don't think it could be out of time because you say it runs if it were out of time it would not fire or it would run very poorly and have a possible backfire through the carb that just my .02 cents

[Mr. 856 170]

starts easy, idles fine, goes to high throttle without a hick up and no apparent backfiring(throttle cable not installed doing throttle by hand). But cant for the life of me get/see the timing marks in the hole with a timing light. even after putting whiteout on the mark. that's when I shut it down and started looking at things by hand and from what I can tell the points are opening when the "S" is leaving the hole. so say from center mark down to out of site the points are opening.

[Desko 552]

Then its not out of time that's for sure id say throw it together and forget about it and run it IMO. Other than that id have no clue other than wrong points or cam but I don't know.

[buckrancher 2,678]

you are not off a tooth to fix your problem you need to change the point gap if you  are using a timing light you can adjust the points while the motor is running

[sorekiwi 761]

The best way to confirm exactly when the points are opening is to use a multimeter or continuity tester to check when the contacts actually stop contacting.

 

On most engines the points gap and the ignition timing can be adjusted independently.  On a K series engine, the only way to change ignition timing is via the points gap.

 

You don't say what you have set the points gap to, if I understand your above post right, it sounds that you need to close the points gap a little.  This will cause the points to open a little before they are presently opening (advance the timing).  I usually end up at around .018" gap on my Kohlers.

[Mr. 856 170]

stupid question.......when using a guage should the .020 fit at all if it "set" to .018? seems this is where I may be screwing myself up. should there be any "drag" with the guage to the points? whats to much or to little. We are talking such a small amount here that its hard to believe that little bit would make that much of a difference however I understand it can. when gauging what are you feeling for? nice fit? tight fit?

[sorekiwi 761]

Because the points are spring loaded it is possible to get a bigger gauge in there than what the gap actually is.  You will develop a feel for it with experience.

 

Try this - if you are aiming for .020" then a .019" will fall in the gap, and a .021" will not fit (without pushing the points open further against the spring pressure).

[slammer302 2,154]

You can check your timing by using the static timing method terry Denis had a PDF that you can read

[rmaynard 14,945]

Remember that when you time an engine using the static timing method, you need to turn the flywheel in a clockwise direction when looking at the flywheel. Doing so rotates the engine in a counter-clockwise direction when viewing the engine from the PTO side. If you are rotating it backwards, the static method won't work.

 

Here is a link to the static timing procedure:

 

http://mgonitzke.net16.net/tools/static_timing.pdf

Edited March 27, 2014 by rmaynard

[Mr. 856 170]

I will try the all mentioned above tomorrow evening. Was hoping to get out there tonight but ended up working late. I will report back after I try the static method and get it set from there.

 

I really appreciate you guys with your quick and knowledgeable responses to my somewhat silly questions. MAYNARD has held my hand a few times through this refresh of my 856. Buchrancher, sorekiwi, you guys to are more then willing to help aswell. It doesn't go unnoticed. Your time and knowledge is much appreciated.

 

I will report back tomorrow night with what I figure out.

[BPC23 18]

You didn't report back!  What did you find was the problem?

[Mr. 856 170]

Ha Brian! What I found was this.........with the point gap set at what I thought was .020 I couldn't see the "S" on the flywheel while engine was running. Oddly the engine started easily and seemed to run fine there. Took a white china marker to the line on the flywheel, closed my points slightly and tried again. This time with the timing light I was stating to see the "S" show up at the top of the hole. closed the points a bit more with it running and whalla. There she was. The "S" mark was holding steady dead center in the site hole. tightened the screw and checked again to and noticed they were off again. Quickly learned you really need to hold the points with two screw drivers when tightening. Got it set again quickly and seems to be just fine. Still starts easy, idles good, revs out good. Maybe a little back fire when I let off the throttle from high to low quickly.......im running it by hand currently as getting the throttle cable setup seems to be stumping me. That's the price im paying for not taking good pictures when I took it apart three years ago. So as of right now I seem to have the engine running pretty well but I don't want to pat myself on the back just yet until I can really run it. However I am enjoying the learning process of doing this rebuild. Really my first rebuild rebuild. Ive rebuilt many carbs over the years, fixed some other stuff here and there but this is the first complete teardown and rebuild. Its nerve racking task........especially when I got around to grinding the  valve stems. that was a nail biter for me. so what I learned here is the points certainly do control the timing and moving them ever so slightly makes a difference in the timing. Other thing I learned is timing lights are a nice tool to have.