c16 auto wiring issues

[John318 1]

Hello, I am new to this forum and am working on my first wheel horse. It is a 1973 (from what I was told) 16HP hydro with hydro lift and electric clutch. I got this tractor from a friend as it sat in a basement for 10 years. I changed the fluids, plugs, points, coil, and condenser and all the good stuff and she fired right up. I noticed the clutch would not engage when I flipped the switch so I have been wrecking my brain trying to figure it out. It wasn't until today I realized the key switch must be in accessory mode for the deck to work. In trying to trace down what I thought may be a broken wire, I must have messed something up because now, the engine will not turn over. I am at a loss. The PTO didn't engage and the hydro lift is not activating. These two items are all this tractor needs to be an awesome machine. Does anyone make wire harnesses for these? The silver plate on the side reads 10440  8 at the top and then 942630 under that. I assume one is the serial number? I have a few JDs but have never tinkered with a red horse. Thanks for any direction you may point me in.

 

Chad in TN

[posifour11 723]

I always say to check all your grounds. Especially the battery to frame ground. Next is to clean and inspect your connections.

[rmaynard 14,961]

Welcome to RedSquare. The top number is the ID. Should be read as 1-0440. That's the number you need for doing any research.

 

Go to our manuals section and download a wiring diagram to help you. There are a couple of safety switches that may be causing your problems.

[John318 1]

Thanks guys. I will check the grounds, switches, and terminals. Is there a resource for aftermarket wiring harnesses for these?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,554]

Replacement harness assemblies are not available. Wiring is fairly simple in these older models. The diagram is in the operator manual

 

Garry

[John318 1]

Thanks for your responses. I found the wiring issue and she is running like a kitten! Now, there are two things left to address: The electric PTO will not engage and the hydro deck lift doesn't work. I tried this time, after learning, with the key switch in accessory mode but it still didn't turn on. I have a test light and a multi-tester. How can I test the PTO? On the hydro deck lift, when I move the little lever up and down, the hoses jerk some like they are getting pressure but it is not making it to the lift cylinder. Any advice is greatly appreciated!!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,554]

See if this bulletin helps. A little older but should still apply

 

All I can add is make sure the pto coil has a good ground connection.

Let us know if you need more help.

 

Garry

[js5020 111]

Thanks for your responses. I found the wiring issue and she is running like a kitten! Now, there are two things left to address: The electric PTO will not engage and the hydro deck lift doesn't work. I tried this time, after learning, with the key switch in accessory mode but it still didn't turn on. I have a test light and a multi-tester. How can I test the PTO? On the hydro deck lift, when I move the little lever up and down, the hoses jerk some like they are getting pressure but it is not making it to the lift cylinder. Any advice is greatly appreciated!!

My 73 16 auto has one of the pto wires grounded to the engine block and the other is positive from the pto switch.  In any case you can take your meter and unhook the plug at the pto clutch and put the leads in the plug and read battery volts on the tractor side of the plug with the key turned to the on position with the pto switch on.  With that said you can also energize the clutch by running a positive and negative direct to the clutch side of the plug from the battery, safer to use the meter and check for volts.

 

Deck lift is pure mechanical/hydraulic,,, check the trans fluid level to be sure its correct first sounds like its cavitating and fluid level may be low?

[John318 1]

I finally had time to work on the wheel horse a little. There is one wire coming from the electric PTO to the PTO switch. I pulled that wire off the terminal on the switch and touched that terminal with my test light and nothing. This is while the PTO switch is in the "on" position, the key switch is in "run accessories" position, and pedal switch is made. I am thinking this means the PTO switch is bad, but I am ignorant.

 

JS5020, I'm not understanding your instructions. I took the multi meter leads and put them to the wire going to the PTO clutch with key in "on" position but nothing came on the screen. As far as battery to PTO direct test,  how do I exactly run a positive and negative to one wire on the clutch?

 

I don't drink, but I am considering starting.

[chazm 412]

From what I see from the manual you need to check the orange wire going to your PTO switch, it needs to be hot (12v)  Be sure the fuse is not blown  before condemning the switch.

[John318 1]

I just checked the orange wire and it is hot. 

[chazm 412]

JS5020, I'm not understanding your instructions. I took the multi meter leads and put them to the wire going to the PTO clutch with key in "on" position but nothing came on the screen. As far as battery to PTO direct test,  how do I exactly run a positive and negative to one wire on the clutch?

 

I don't drink, but I am considering starting.

 

OK to ck the Ele PTO clutch ... the ground (black) wire needs to have a good contact to the frame or motor.  Run a jumper wire from the battery (+) to the Positive (red) wire on the PTO clutch, to see if the PTO makes a clicking noise & engages ( this is just a test DO NOT leave the jumper connected for any period of time  ) If the PTO engages,this will tell you that it should be good  & that the problem lies elsewhere 

 

Good luck & keep us posted

[John318 1]

Alright fellas, first of all - I really appreciate you guys helping me. I am trying to wrap this thing up today if possible. I ran the jumper wire and the PTO did NOT engage. Next, I took all the coating off the wires coming from the PTO to see if there were any breaks in the wire since this thing sat unused for 10 years. I found a nick or two so I jumped the wire closer to the PTO passed the nicks and still nothing. I am wondering if the wires are loose inside the PTO. I took the large bolt in the center of the PTO out thinking I could then pull the PTO out, but no. So, my question is how do I remove the PTO so I can inspect the wiring? The guy that parked the machine said it mowed like a charm when he parked it 10 years ago. don't look like it would just stop working by sitting, but I could be wrong. I am so ready to get this project complete and move on to the next one.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,554]

One of these should help

I think there are clutches that used a 1" bolt to remove the assembly also.

Garry

[John318 1]

PTO wires are fine. I am about to give up on this adventure and cut my losses. Life is too damn short. I am not getting hot coming from the PTO switch nor does the PTO click when I use a jumper wire. All wires look good. only a few nicks, so I replaced them with brand new wiring. I am thinking a new PTO switch won't mean crap since the jumper wire didn't work. I have never had this much bad luck diagnosing a tractor. This is my first wheel horse, but they can't be much difference in wiring. Looks like this tractor only has one fuse behind the fuel tank. That fuse is good. I have hot going to key switch, PTO switch, safety switch on pedal works. I just don't know....

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,554]

Wiring diagram is in the operator manual

 

The pto feed wire goes into the coil, makes a 100 wraps and comes back out as a ground wire. Take the ground off and feed the coil again. See if you have voltage at the ground wire. If you do the problem may be a bad ground. If you don't the wire is broken somewhere. I don't think the coil is shorted because you would have sparks flying when making the connections.

 

Garry

[Save Old Iron 1,564]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[John318 1]

Hey friends. Sorry I haven't been on here in a while. Been working 7 days a week which is a blessing really if you think about it now days. I had to drop the wheel horse off at a reputable small engine repair expert that I learned about through a friend. He checked the PTO and it is no good. My question is: where can I get either a good used one or new one? It is a 1973 C-16 auto with an electric PTO.

 

thanks

 

Chad in TN

[Hodge71 663]

They are usually found on ebay for around $100-$125 plus shipping. Theres a brand new one on there right now for $350…its been on there for close to year now. He just keeps relisting it every month when it doesn't sell. I have 3 spares right now…plus 1 on my 1971 Charger 12 automatic that is one of my plow tractors… That one is probably going on my 74 C-160 as its clutch stopped working and its my mower tractor...I guess Im a hoarder but functioning ones are getting like hens teeth

 

Edited: I actually just remembered I bought a couple from Kelly. Check him out on here. Send him a PM, he is a vendor and is great to deal with, plus he is a bucket o knowledge

Edited March 1, 2014 by hodge71

[squonk 39,176]

With enough looking, you should be able to convert the electric PTO to manual.