Detaching shaft from pulley on mower deck?

[swirlsaepi 0]

So this is my first post.  I apologize if it's really long winded, but I feel you all should get a background as to my unique situation.

 

I recently bought an old farmhouse in an estate sale in upstate NY, and in one of the sheds there happened to be a 1988 414-8 Wheel Horse sitting there, including a plow and tiller attachments, rear wheel weights and chains, and the cabin enclosure for wintertime (a necessity up here since I live right on Lake Ontario).  I have no clue how long it had been sitting, but after replacement battery and teaspoon of gas directly on top of the spark plug, it immediately fired right up!  It definitely is in need of some TLC - there are about 3 or 4 bungee cords keeping things attached and positioned correctly, and most of the paint has fallen off, but I think it would be a great restoration project to begin in the spring when I have some more free time.

 

I'd never even heard of Wheel Horse until I saw it in my shed, but after dong some quick research it appears I've obviously been missing out.  And it looks like this site is the jackpot for knowledge, so I'm sure I will be picking the brains of a lot of experts on here!

 

Anyways, I was quite pleased when I saw it had a hydraulic deck, so I decided to take it out in the yard and see how it ran overall.  The clock on the engine said roughly 1,500 hours, and I have no clue whatsoever as to how adamant the previous owners were for timely scheduled maintenance, so I didn't really expect much, but figured with a 48" side discharge deck it was at least worth seeing what it could do.  But it was mowing grass like a pro, and was having little trouble with anything I could throw at it.  

 

Anyways, after I mowed a section I turned around to see how it was doing, and noticed that the middle blade on the deck wasn't cutting any grass.  I happened to find the owners manuals for the tractor, deck, and plow (all together in a plastic baggie to protect it from the elements no less), so I was able to take off the deck and get a look at the underside to see what the culprit was.  I had figured the bolt attaching the blade was loose or something so it was just spinning freely rather than being driven by the pulleys, but was shocked when I saw that the middle blade was actually missing entirely.  There is no model number marked on the deck that I can see, so I have no clue exactly how old it is.

 

I found a local small engine shop near my house who happens to be a Toro/Wheel Horse authorized repair/retail facility, and he happened to have the blades I needed in stock.  I went to put them on, and discovered that the bolting pattern for the blades did not match the shafts on my deck.  I took them back, along with one of my blades so that I could ensure I was getting the right blades the second time.  I showed them to the employee, who informed me that the deck I have is not from a 1988 Wheel Horse, he said they stopped making shafts with flats in the 70s, and switched to the completely round shafts in the 80s.  So he ordered me a new set of blades to match my old blade mounting pattern.  

 

The following day I noticed that the middle spindle on my deck (or what I think is the spindle) is actually missing the spacer at the end of the shaft for mounting to the blade.  I took some pictures, which are posted below, and went back to the Wheel Horse shop.  The guy said he'd look around to see if he happened to have an old one lying around somewhere, and sure enough a few minutes later he came out from the back with an old one he had as a spare.  $25.  He said I should be able to just unbolt the pulley, pull it off, slide out the old shaft, then slide the new one on and reattach the pulley.  

 

The problem is, I can't get the pulley to come off, nor can I see any bolts or anything that happens to be holding it on,  I tried spraying it with some WD40 in case it was just rusted together, but after letting it sit and hitting it with a rubber mallet a few times it still won't budge.  That's when I decided to register on here and solicit the help from the experts on here.  I wasn't able to find the instruction manual for my deck on here to see an exploded view of the spindle and pulley assembly, so I was hoping some of you on here could help me out.  How do I get the pulley off to attach this new shaft?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Replacement shaft:

 

Center pulley:

 

Center blade spindle assembly:

 

Left blade spindle assembly:

 

[squonk 38,988]

Welcome to upstate NY and   going by your pics and info what I would do is this:

 

If you really plan on fixing it up and seeing that it has lots of use I would go back the the dealer or E-bay and get new complete spindles to fit the new blades. I cannot believe the dealer didn't suggest this. My center spindle wallowed out 2 years ago and after screwing around with used stuff I bought the new updated spindle and pulley and have been trouble free. It won't be cheap, but it's better than breaking down mid mow. Something tells me those old spindles aren't long for this world.

Edited September 7, 2013 by squonk

[groundhog47 347]

First  , second look at this free download to get familiar with the innards of the assemblies and their replacement: 

third if I follow what you are saying, the shaft is lower on the center spindle than the two outer spindles, correct. If that is the case the "d" hole spacer is missing possibly (about as thick as half dollar)(not the thick spindle cup with spirol pins to drive blade)  or top of  housing is ground down**, less likely. In the download look at the B, C, D, or K spindle assy for reference. The deck looks like 65-xxxx or 75-xxxx series with the K spindle assy but could be older modle or mixture of diff modles. Any way when you remove blade, see if can get blade spindle cup off: if not mistaken shaft drives out on these from bottom to tp so pulley could stay on.

**Also if there was no bolt holding the center pulley on the shaft could grind it's way downward

 

Ditto squonk the spindles are rare and costly also, have an acquaintance on here that has the whole thing blades and all I believe still

Edited September 7, 2013 by groundhog47

[swirlsaepi 0]

Mike, he told me he could definitely order me new spindles.  I didn't really see a point in it right now since the new assembles would be a couple hundred bucks each, and the current ones work fine.  It's just one is missing the spacer on the shaft.

 

Gerry, the shaft is actually the same height on all three spindles to my knowledge.

[groundhog47 347]

 

Gerry, the shaft is actually the same height on all three spindles to my knowledge.

Ok I see. did you get to see edited post on the diagram of spindle. Basically just blade was missing and can't disassemble. Try that method of removing cup, unless it's already off and **tap spindle shaft with protection to prevent flaring shaft. Just don't over do as to damage deck attachment and **use some penetrating oil, let stand awhile, then try. Don't know if heat would help, but bearings if sealed might be ruined.

[swirlsaepi 0]

Yes, I downloaded the manual.  Thanks!

 

In looking at it, I believe my spindle assemblies are shown on Page 5 of 35, as the "B" non-greasable spindle assembly.  Looks like the spacer that I'm missing is P/N 104373.  What is the cup you are referring to?

 

The used one he sold me is circular rather than the oval ones that are installed in the left and right blades, but I don't see that being a problem since the bolting pattern is still exactly the same.  

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,513]

Here are the 48" side discharge deck models that use blades with 5/8"x3/4" Double-D hole and fit your style and size of tractor.

 

(1966-1967 RL-486)

(1968 5-1481)

(1969 5-5481)

(1969 5-1482)

(1970 5-1483)

(1971 5-1200)

(1972 5-1201)

(1973 5-1202)

(1973-1974 5-1210)

(1975 5-1211)

(1976 65-48MS01 65-48MS02)

(1977 75-48MS01)

 

The spindle cups are at the end of this file

 

This one may help you identify the spindles you have

 

That spindle cup should come off the shaft so you can replace it on yours.

 

Garry

[swirlsaepi 0]

Okay, so the spindle cup is what I was calling the spacer.  If it will come off of the replacement shaft so that I can just install it directly on my existing shaft, that would be by far the easiest solution...

[WH nut 553]

Okay, so the spindle cup is what I was calling the spacer.  If it will come off of the replacement shaft so that I can just install it directly on my existing shaft, that would be by far the easiest solution...

It will come off, soak it down in WD40 and smack it a couple times

[daveoman1966 3,624]

(1) If you have a HEAVY DUTY vise, set the cup on it with shaft down between the vise jaws, then close vise to where it just touches the shaft. 

(2) Find a short 3/8-16 bolt that will thread all the way into the shaft...this will be the hammering surface and protect threads.

(3) Hold the flat side of a ball-peen hammer on the bolt, SMACK it violently with a bigger hammer.  Repeat until shaft breaks lose.

(4) When lose, remove the short bolt and find another bolt but longer...2" or so and put a flat washer on it and tighten it into the threads.

(5) Reposition the spindle cup in vise and drive the 2" bolt down thru it...taking out the spindle shaft too, (washer catches it).

If you don't have a vise, find a length of 1" ID metal pipe and set the shaft into it...then start at step 2 above.

Edited September 8, 2013 by daveoman1966

[daveoman1966 3,624]

In looking at your pic of the center pulley, I can only say that life is short for it.  It appears to have been grossly modified to where it probably will not mount correctly on the replacement shaft you have.  These Double-D pulleys and shafts must fit precisely or they will beging to work back-n-forth and soon become so sloppy as to disintegrate.  You also need to check the bearings on the spindle(s).  If you ever get the top center pulley off, the shaft should drive down thru the spindle.  In doing this, there will be a snap-ring come lose inside the housing.  That isn't too much of an issue and will probably fall out of the way, but the bigger issue is the condition of the 2 bearings, AFTER you drive the shaft down thru them.  In all likelyhood, they will be ruined, if not already bad.  If the replacement shaft you have isn't damaged at all, it probably will be after you force it up thru the original spindle bearings.

 

As a 2nd note, it looks like the center spindle housing is badly corroded on one side...very typical.  Hate to say it, but your efforts to rescue the spindle may be in vain.  You need to look closely at the other two spindles...do the shafts wobble left / right or move up/down.  Is the top pulley AND spindle cup tight on the shaft and NOT sloppy when the BOLT is OUT.  With the belt off, do the spindles turn easily by hand, with no bearing drag or noise.  Don't forget, these blades turn at very high rpm and it doesn't take very much for one to start the slippery downhill slope...like that center one.

 

I have lots of good useable parts for this style spindle and can probably provide you with solutions much cheaper that a dealer would.  If in doubt, you can also check my reputation on this forum.  

 

my private email is:  daveoman@windstream.net

and I am located in n/w PA at zip 16433

 

Here is what the center pulley should look like

 

       

[groundhog47 347]

Yes, I downloaded the manual.  Thanks!

 

In looking at it, I believe my spindle assemblies are shown on Page 5 of 35, as the "B" non-greasable spindle assembly.  Looks like the spacer that I'm missing is P/N 104373.  What is the cup you are referring to?

 

The used one he sold me is circular rather than the oval ones that are installed in the left and right blades, but I don't see that being a problem since the bolting pattern is still exactly the same.  

The spindle cup is that heavy piece with two pins sticking out to assist in driving blade 104373 (bottom of shaft). You show it in replacement shaft and left assy pic (diff styje) It helps keep stuff out of bearings. The oval is newer I believe and center to center of both should be same. Did you determine whether a 36", 42", or 48". You can measure an orig blade from deck x 3 and get a pretty good idea. That will give you a better parts hunting opportunity.

 

OOPS see Garry already covered spindle cups and very well. 

Edited September 8, 2013 by groundhog47

[daveoman1966 3,624]

I am attaching pics of the complete Center spindle assembly.  It is corroded some but still plenty useful.  The shaft on this spins freely with no drag, and the top center pulley fits firm and tight...like it is supposed to be.  I had the spinmdle cup off...but not all the way, just enough to know that it isn't stuck on, like yours.  I also had the top pulley on, but only part way because it is very tight...which is what is needed.

 

The spring lock washer is included as well as the top pulley and bottom cup bolts...4 housing bolts too.  You'd only need to remove your spindle and bolt this one on in its place....mount the top pulley, then go mow the grass.

 

$65 for the double pulley only.

$45 for the complete spindle, less top pulley

$100 for double pulley and center spindle.

$12 flat rate ship charge in USA

 

Paypal accepted. 

 

 

 

[swirlsaepi 0]

I finally got the spindle cup off of the replacement shaft - it took a while, and my right forearm feels like jell-o after pounding on it with a rubber mallet for most of the day, but it eventually came off.  

 

I got it attached to the existing center shaft, and bolted it down with one of my blades to see how it would do.  It was definitely sloppy, and was wobbly in all directions.  Left/right, forward/back, and up/down.

 

So since my center spindle assembly is pretty much shot, it will definitely be cheaper to buy a used one from you rather than a new one from the dealer.  Is your PayPal address the email address you listed above?  Based on the size of the spindle and pulley assembly, I'm assuming you'd send it USPS flat rate?

[daveoman1966 3,624]

That is correct.  Just send the $112 payment to my email address, which is:

daveoman@windstream.net

 

When Paypal funds are received in my account, I will send you the complete spindle assy and double pulley as shown in the 3 pics I sent.

Dave

[CasualObserver 3,406]

Dave, again, please stop using the open forum for selling, or you will be suspended.