Work starts on my GT 14

[neil 2,398]

Just the news i wanted to hear , thats made my day now

He who dares wins Rodders

This time next year youll be a millionaire

Things are on the up again Ian Im delighted for you

[meadowfield 2,567]

yup great news !

[Dual Drive Horse 6]

Great news, glad I didn't try too hard to sell it for you now.

[Stormin 9,977]

[Stigian 1,234]

Thanks Guy's, it's been a stressful few weeks to say the least.. I think being able to keep the GT has made me finally relax a bit again and get my oomph back as I did lose it for a while!

 

 

Anyway, it's been a fun day getting to know the GT again

 

The 16hp engine is in and bolted down, still need to sort the wiring out.

 

I got my head around making a new exhaust today, the muffler is the one that came with the engine.

I still need to make a "steady bracket " just in case it get clobbered by any fast moving trees/bushes..

The gas tank heat shield will be going back on with a few mods to help it shield heat a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

As my 312-8 has been put on permanent grass cutting duties and maybe some light trailer work, it didn't have a need for a roll bar any longer... 

 

 

Soooo....  You have to love the interchangeability of Wheel Horse parts..

 

 

 

 

The roll bar still needs welding back together as I cut most of the bar off when it was on the 312 so I could cut the grass under the trees... Which is why it looks a little wonky.

 

 

The only trouble was the bar made the whole GT look a little tall and spindly..... Until....

 

I slid a length of tube over the end of the muffler to see how it looks... I think it brings the proportions back again 

I just wish I had enough space in the shack to get a good photo of it!

 

 

 

Way back on page 1 I mentioned that I was thinking of using a drive pulley from a dead KT17 engine....

 

Here's my way of getting the pulley of if you don't have a puller that will fit

 

[Stigian 1,234]

It never rains but it pours.. I think that's the expression!!

 

I found out today that the drive pulley on the GT's trans was a bit on the wobbly side, only to find some muppet way in the past had seen fit to try and weld the cast pulley to the trans pump shaft!!!

Of course weld will stick to the shaft but not the pulley, meaning I had to grind large lumps of weld off the shaft as it was stopping the pulley from coming off..

 

The said pulley off.

 

 

 

Would you look at that... The remains of one of the two broken grub screws still in the hole!!

 

 

 

A nasty looking key way!!

 

 

 

And this is the state of the trans pump shaft!!!

 

Looks like there has not been a key in there for a long long time!!!

 

 

 

What I can do about the shaft I have no idea!!

 

 

I should point out that none of the problems I have found with the GT are anything to do with Neil, it's just a combination of many bodges by many previous owners over the years.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Stigian

[coldone 35]

Dremel rotary tool, small metal cutting disks and alot of patients. You can cut another key way on the opposite side of the shaft.

[Anglo Traction 759]

That's not good  . What size is that Pump Shaft and Key Ian?   . Not familiar with Hydros (I see Gt14s had their own version).

 Just wondering if the complete Pump could be mounted on the Lathe, lock the shaft somehow and machine a new Keyway Slot (not woodruff) in the shaft. The Pulley could then have a new Keyway and new Grub Screws.... Not a quick fix, but imagine it would be better than disturbing the internals to get the Shaft out to repair it .      

[Lars 526]

Auch... that is not good!! hope you will find a good way to fix it:)

[Stigian 1,234]

Dremel rotary tool, small metal cutting disks and alot of patients. You can cut another key way on the opposite side of the shaft.

 

I did think of trying that, trouble is my hand isn't steady enough..

 

 

 

That's not good  . What size is that Pump Shaft and Key Ian?   . Not familiar with Hydros (I see Gt14s had their own version).

 Just wondering if the complete Pump could be mounted on the Lathe, lock the shaft somehow and machine a new Keyway Slot (not woodruff) in the shaft. The Pulley could then have a new Keyway and new Grub Screws.... Not a quick fix, but imagine it would be better than disturbing the internals to get the Shaft out to repair it .      

 

Hi Richard, the pump shaft is a little under 3/4" diameter. Photo of the correct key below.

 

 

 

Auch... that is not good!! hope you will find a good way to fix it:)

 

Thanks Lars..

 

 

"It never rains but it pours" isn't quite accurate now..  More like "it sometimes rains, but at the moment the sun is shining brightly"    

 

 

You know how it is, sometimes a solution presents itself when your not thinking about the problem..

I had my "Eureka" moment yesterday while eating lunch.. The good news is I wasn't in the bath so I didn't drop my egg sandwich while having to stand up

 

Anyway, I had a dig through my spares and found the correct key to fit the shaft..

 

 

 

The shaft looks better after a clean up with a file to remove the burrs.  I still need to file the inside out a bit more so the key will fit..

 

 

 

I'm not going to tell you what the plan is yet, the only clue I'm going to give you is I need to make another key... Out of brass

 

 

 

To finish off a big Thank you to Dave a good chap who drove down from up north to collect a trans I sold him, and was kind enough to give me the drive pulley off it when I noticed it would fit the GT's hydro pump....

 

Cheers Dave...

 

 

And yes I did encourage him to sign up here 

[neil 2,398]

Well this is my theory on what you are gonna do with the brass key

 

1. Make brass key exactlly same size at steel one

2. place key into slot on drive shaft

3. fill in around worn areas by weld filling

4. Remove  brass key

5. file back and redress over weld

6. place steel key in keyway slot

7. put pulley back  on

 

Im probably wrong but it maybe a solution

[meadowfield 2,567]

I thought that too Neil, but brass melts at about a 1000degC and steel 1500degC. So it can't work...

[Stigian 1,234]

Well this is my theory on what you are gonna do with the brass key

 

1. Make brass key exactlly same size at steel one

2. place key into slot on drive shaft

3. fill in around worn areas by weld filling

4. Remove  brass key

5. file back and redress over weld

6. place steel key in keyway slot

7. put pulley back  on

 

Im probably wrong but it maybe a solution

 

I'm impressed Neil, you got it right first time

 

 

 

I thought that too Neil, but brass melts at about a 1000degC and steel 1500degC. So it can't work...

 

I have to disagree with you Mark... I've no idea on the melting temperatures, but I've been using brass to help with welding for a long time.   If the gap between two bit's of metal I have to weld together is a little too large, I just clamp my lump of brass behind the join, weld the join up over the brass and job done.

The brass never sticks or melts, it just gets a slight blackening which brushes off with a wipe of a finger..

 

I will see if I can find a link for you..

[meadowfield 2,567]

It wasn't a disagreement, it was a comment drawn from my perception of the melting points. If it works then its a great way of fixing things! :D

[Stigian 1,234]

It's great way of fixing things, it works really well..... Which is handy as my welding gaps are not what they should be some of the time 

 

I found the link, ok this chap uses copper not brass (I guess from the colour of the stuff I'm using it is brass and not a very light coloured copper), but it's where I got the idea from..

This chap really knows how to fabricate and shape metal using the minimal of tools..

 

Scroll down a little bit to the tube..

 

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/65793/1962-vauxhall-victor-fb-panels?page=7

[meadowfield 2,567]

That's freakin awesome! I'm pretty good at filling gaps, but not that big....

[Stigian 1,234]

If you have the time it's well worth reading the whole car build thread.. I've learned sooo much about shaping metal from reading it..

[neil 2,398]

It sounds like an excellent idea Ian & i really hope it works out

Its just a thought  but could you actually spot weld the Woodruff key into the keyway and then file back until the pulley slots back on & maybe even put a couple nof spot welds on the pulley for second measure . I know this is probabley not ideal but it may just get you back on the road ?

Just a thought

[coldone 35]

There is this

 

Havent tried it personally but I do trust loctite.

[953 nut 52,967]

That's not good  . What size is that Pump Shaft and Key Ian?   . Not familiar with Hydros (I see Gt14s had their own version).

 Just wondering if the complete Pump could be mounted on the Lathe, lock the shaft somehow and machine a new Keyway Slot (not woodruff) in the shaft. The Pulley could then have a new Keyway and new Grub Screws.... Not a quick fix, but imagine it would be better than disturbing the internals to get the Shaft out to repair it .      

  The only thing that is different on a GT14 Hydrogear is the output shaft that goes into the transaxle, you can use the pump from any model or year hydrogear and I did a tutorial on changing out the output shaft a few months back and posted it here. I fear that the heat of welding on the shaft will cause problems with the shaft seals; you may be better off with another pump if you can find one.

 

You are right about using copper to back up an open gap for welding, melting temp. is much higher.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Don1977 604]

I know you've modified the the Magium engine cover. I was thanking with the blocks being the same as the K series wouldn't a K series cover fit on the M series. Then the GT-14 would look like it was original.

[Stigian 1,234]

It sounds like an excellent idea Ian & i really hope it works out

Its just a thought  but could you actually spot weld the Woodruff key into the keyway and then file back until the pulley slots back on & maybe even put a couple nof spot welds on the pulley for second measure . I know this is probabley not ideal but it may just get you back on the road ?

Just a thought

 

Morning Neil, I did think about welding the key into the shaft, but it would give problems down the line should I ever need to get the pump apart.. I think my thought train had reached this far when the brass key idea popped into my head.

 

 

 

There is this

 

Havent tried it personally but I do trust loctite.

 

Hhmm... interesting stuff....  I'm guessing from the size of the keyway that that shaft is from a hefty bit of machinery.. The Loctite must be good stuff to sort out something that size!

 

 

 

 

That's not good  . What size is that Pump Shaft and Key Ian?   . Not familiar with Hydros (I see Gt14s had their own version).

 Just wondering if the complete Pump could be mounted on the Lathe, lock the shaft somehow and machine a new Keyway Slot (not woodruff) in the shaft. The Pulley could then have a new Keyway and new Grub Screws.... Not a quick fix, but imagine it would be better than disturbing the internals to get the Shaft out to repair it .      

  The only thing that is different on a GT14 Hydrogear is the output shaft that goes into the transaxle, you can use the pump from any model or year hydrogear and I did a tutorial on changing out the output shaft a few months back and posted it here. I fear that the heat of welding on the shaft will cause problems with the shaft seals; you may be better off with another pump if you can find one.

 

You are right about using copper to back up an open gap for welding, melting temp. is much higher.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

 

The heat from welding is a bit of a worry, I did plan to do it a blob of two at a time and let the shaft cool down again maybe with the help of a slightly damp rag..

The chances of finding another pump in the UK is slim to say the least!

 

 

 

I know you've modified the the Magium engine cover. I was thanking with the blocks being the same as the K series wouldn't a K series cover fit on the M series. Then the GT-14 would look like it was original.

 

Hey Don, the blocks are the same but the shroud and the ally plate that bolts to the block behind the flywheel are different. The Magnum cover is a lot wider above the flywheel hole than the K series.. shame really as it would of been nice to make the M look like a K

 

 

Well, progress has been a bit faster than expected!

 

Thanks you again Dave for the trans pulley, just the right size all round and even has built in cooling fins

 

 

 

It saved me a lot of work having to make this pulley fit and cool!

 

 

 

The brass key is getting there, 99% the right shape just needs to thin down a bit.

As it turned out I don't need to use the brass key in the end!

 

 

 

I filed out the key way on the pump shaft just enough to get a correct key (not the brass one) to fit... A very nice tight fit too

 

Out of interest I slid the new pulley on the shaft and tightened it up..

 

Oo-er... That's a very nice tight fit with no play or movement on the pulley at all!!    That will do for me.. I will keep an eye on it just to check nothing nasty is happening, but fingers crossed it will work in the long term..

 

 

 

The slightly smaller KT-17 engine pulley on the engine and a drive belt found, though I feel it's a little short as the belt tensioner pulley thingy won't go quite all the way down..

 

 

 

What happened next came as a bit of a shock...

 

My mind turned back towards getting the drive pulley and electric PTO of the GT's original engine..

The chances of the electric PTO still working after all these years was slim to none, so it wouldn't matter if I got the grinder out an cut it off the shaft....

 

Best check it does not work first..

 

A minute later the battery charger was connected...

 

Turn it on and "Clunk" went the PTO!!    Oo-er the pulley's don't move now!!    NO way I thought..

 

Power off, "clunk", power back on again, another clunk!!!

 

Wow, who would of thought that after all these years (it's a 1971 by the way) that the electric PTO would still work!!!      Amazing!!

 

I guess I need to find the right bolt to get it off the shaft now

 

[Anglo Traction 759]

A bit of Good news re the PTO and progress on the Pump Ian !......... Reckon you probably needed some.  

[Stigian 1,234]

Thank you Richard, yes it was nice to have a bit of good news/luck for a change

 

 

I hope to have the ol girl up and running today.

 

Most of the panels have been bolted back on except the belt guard. I want check the belt doesn't do any thingy nasty.

 

 

 

 

The wiring loom has been made, it looks a bit of a dog's dinner at the moment, but once I know everything works as it should I can break out the soldering iron and give the loom a tidy up.

 

 

 

Sooo... Will it start, run and move as it should???

 

We shall find out later today

[Stigian 1,234]

It's alive

 

Click on the picture to see it run..

 

Sorry about the rubbish video quality, I sure miss my other video camera!