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Thunderlizard

312-8 Dash Lights and Circuit Board

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Thunderlizard

Well, I decided to post this in the hope that it may help some one else who "geeks out" on this stuff like I do!  Fo rme, if it's there, it's supposed to work.  And when it comes to lights of any kind, this form of "man-bling" is eye-candy I just couldn't walk away from!

 

So when I re-connected the feed wires to the test switch and saw that a few of the lights on the dash lit, I was all over it.  I removed the circuit board and had to clean what looked like 20 years worth of decaying yard stuff from the board.  A soft brush and some silicone spray really helped here.  However, that's when the lights started "flaking off", as the bases were so decayed even the ones that lit were just barely hanging on.

 

So I unsoldered the bases and wires, which was as simple as holding the iron on the leftover post while holding the post with needle-nosed pliers. Once the solder melts, the stub comes right out.  But here's where I made a mistake of assumption.  I assumed that the bulbs were 12V, since the charging system is 12v.  After returning from my local Radio Shack with 12 volt bulbs, soldering in a couple and getting nothing, I thought I fried the board!  But then I looked at it in the dark and noticed the faintest glow from my replacements. That alerted me to bad voltage and when I put a voltmeter on the leads I discovered that they only drew 2 - 2.3 volts each.

 

So I went back to Radio Shack and this time I got 2.5V bi-pin LED's (from the slide out drawers where all the good stuff is!).  The install was easy but Note: LED's are polarized and will only worked when polarity is correct. So, put a meter on the pins to see which is positive. For me, the positive side was closest to the plug.

 

It's a simple process to snip the leads on the LED's (so they are about 1/4" long), hold them onto the indent from where the old bulb leads were, then touch the iron to the opposite side of the circuit board and gently work the leads through. No addional solder was needed.  They look great!  Here's a Pic:

 

IMG_20130528_182041_955_zps25ba6bea.jpg

 

The coolest thing about this is that the lights actually alerted me to leaving the emergency brake on yesterday!  They did their job!  Gotta love the Wheelhorse. :smile:

 

I'm hoping that maybe some of you who thought your circuit boards were toast can now resurrect them!  Not that it affects the way the tractor works at all, but as I said, the "man-bling" is really cool!  And if it's there, it's supposed to work, right? ;-)

 

Good luck!

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Sparky

Nice job! I'm sure most guys here (me included) would be scared off by a circuit board, let alone making modifications to it.

Mike.......

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Save Old Iron

Good info, Thunderlizard.

 

There are a few of us "geeks" here. A few of us designing our own voltage regulators, thermocouple head temperature monitors and drive around with a digital o'scope strapped to the hood of their tractors. We are here but you have to search out the posts.

 

The display board you refitted with LED's appears to be a more updated version of the 12 volt circuit board I had to rebuild for a 416-8. I did an extensive post about rebuilding the copper traces on the board and replacing the connector for the board. I'll try to find the posts and insert the links on this thread.

 

Your circuit appears to be a diode logic based circuit vs the integrated exclusive or circuit in my older version rebuild. I believe Andy or Mark did a rebuild on a similar board a year or so back. I'm sure they will chime in too.

 

I would be interested in knowing what markings are on the IC chip on the board. I'm guessing it may be a 555 timer to blink the oil low light. The diode logic intrigues me as it may be a little tricky to design an exclusive OR logic with just diodes. Who knows, maybe they changed the logic scheme to pickup the multiple safety switch states. Interesting. And welcome to RS.

 

Chuck

 

p.s. I know that "what the heck happened" feeling walking into a modern day Radio Shack store. Don't know how old you are, but I grew up in Radio Shack stores thru the 1970's and 80's. These days, all the "good stuff" as you said has indeed been stripped from the racks and stuffed into small cabinets in the far rear corners of the stores. I guess that is on purpose to keep us away from the "normal" customers. When you bring a diode or capacitor up to the checkout counter, the questions are invariably the same. "Dude, What IS THAT?"  and "What they heck do they use those for and what are you going to do with it?"  I pay the bill, politely decline to "LIKE" him on his Facebook page and try to get out the front door as quickly as possible. I then brush a small tear away from the corner of my eye. Know that I weep for the future and those who have the entire knowledge of mankind at their finger tips but rather choose to use their Ipad to watch YouTube talking cat videos and argue with people (whom they have never met) if Lady GaGa's new CD is better than her last one.

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Save Old Iron

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Thunderlizard

 

p.s. I know that "what the heck happened" feeling walking into a modern day Radio Shack store. Don't know how old you are, but I grew up in Radio Shack stores thru the 1970's and 80's. These days, all the "good stuff" as you said has indeed been stripped from the racks and stuffed into small cabinets in the far rear corners of the stores. I guess that is on purpose to keep you away from the "normal" customers. When you bring a diode or capacitor up to the checkout counter, the questions are invariably the same. "Dude, What IS THAT?"  and "What they heck do they use those for and what are you going to do with it?"  I pay the bill, politely decline to "LIKE" him on his Facebook page and try to get out the front door as quickly as possible. I then brush a small tear away from the corner of my eye. Know that I weep for the future and those who have the entire knowledge of mankind at their finger tips but rather choose to use their Ipad to watch YouTube talking cat videos and argue with people (whom they have never met) if Lady GaGa's new CD is better than her last one.

I love your commentary!  Yes, I remember...I'm not an electronics Guru, but I've fixed many a circuit board in my time (I'm 49) - more by intuition and logic (and part dumb luck!) rather than knowledge! But yeah, The Shack is not the same, and most of the folks don't know anything.  Can't say as I blame the Shack - the way things are made nowadays, it's cheaper to buy new than to repair the old.  I grew up fixing old radios and TV's, using the tube tester found in my local drug store to check tubes snatched from units people tossed in the trash! To this day, I stil lremember the 12AX7A as being a primary audio driver tube (pre-amp) in old TV's!  Kinda scary what the brain can retain...

But thanks for the write up and encouragement! You are certainly far more educated and technical on the transistor realm than I am.  I just have a "what coudl it hurt" boldness that has mostly lead me to either successfully fixing things, or learning what not to do the next time! ;-)  If I inadvertantly duplicated any of your work in past posts, please forgive me. 

Blessings!

 

Mark

BTW - when I was in the Shack, I saw a "liquid copper circuit pen".  Seemed pretty interesting and useful to fix old boards with bad interconnects.  Never saw that before...

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wheeledhorseman

There's the old adage 'If it ain't broke - don't try fixing it' but in recent years you could add 'if it is broke - don't try fixing it, just throw it away and buy another. Certainly true here in the UK so well done for fixing something that's broke.

 

I guess I must be a similar age to Chuck in that I spent the mid 60s onwards frequenting component stores, some of which had piles of old boards you could scavenge components from. We did have Radio Shack stores in the guise of 'Tandy' but the range of components was limited and the price higher than other privately owned stores. Over recent years these stores have all but disappeared as have some of the mail order outfits I guess because people don't fix things anymore and building your own projects costs more than buying the item new from the Far East. Shame really!

 

I have seen photos of the board you have before but my tractors with idiot lites have the logic chip rather than diode logic both also have the 555 timer to flash the low oil presure warning from the engine sensor but I've seen boards where the holes for this chip and components around it remained unpopulated. I guess for engines with no oil sensor - WH seem to have been good at saving a few cents here and there if they could.

 

The logic chip version seems to be fairly reliable if the wet doesn't get to it but I had one where the chip got partially wiped out - I'm guessing a poor battery connection while the engine was running was the cause. Chuck remembers correctly that, just for fun really, I patched it up with a few extra components. It needed the chip replacing but as all but one light worked after the repair it's still waiting a couple of years on.

 

Anyway, welcome to the 'I'll fix it if I can' club. Looking forward to your future input on RS.

 

Andy

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dsholler

It is not just a bad attitude that has changed this though, particularly with electronics..  If I open up my 1980's vintage radio tuner, I can see all the bits and work out what is in there. Try doing that with an Ipod.. the technology is just too different, and requires too much precision to work on using the classic manual tools (at least for most of it).  it is this level of precision and technological integration that has enabled the technology to move forward, and in some cases the cost reductions and quality improvements make it more attractive to manufacture a new one than repair on older one. I think that those of us who like to listen to music while mowing on our wheel horse are appreciative of the fact that we do not have to use a sony walkman with cassette tapes. :)

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Thunderlizard

... I think that those of us who like to listen to music while mowing on our wheel horse are appreciative of the fact that we do not have to use a sony walkman with cassette tapes. :)

True-dat! 

 

Though I have to say, I've grown awfully fond of the wonderful cadence this 312-8 makes when she's a runnin!  Music to me ears!

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wheeledhorseman

I hear what you're saying and agree re consumer electronics; my comments were set in the context of restoring and maintaining classic tractors, cars and the like. We grew up at a time when repairing things mechanical and electical / electronic for yourself was still possible and what we learned sure comes in handy keeping some of these old things going now. Most youngsters today know only the throw away world that our technology has created. There will still be a few in the future though, my son being one of them; he's learned the ways of the restorer / fixer from myself amongst others.

 

BTW - I still have my early 80s digital tuner, analogue amp, and a transcriptors turntable with Shure V15 III cartridge for listening to my vinyl collection. Part modern man with all sorts of modern gadgets but part dynosaur as well!

 

Andy

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dsholler

Linn Sondek, PS Audio preamp, ADS tube amps and two huge double woofer Vandersteens (and a set of bookshelf Pro-Acc's)  I used to have a Nakamichi dragon, but the mechanism finally wore out, and I decided that while I do still listen to vinyl, cassettes are no longer helpful.

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pfrederi

I remember the days of pulling all the tubes out of our Dumont TV putting them in a egg carton and going to the local gas station/store that had a tube tester.  Fathers position was if the meter got to the yellow it was good enough  only reds got replaced.

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Thunderlizard

Ha!  Yeah, I loved the tube tester! Before I knew anything about it, I played with the thing at the Drug Store.  But when it came to fixing my own, yellows were saved, but only used if you didn't have a green!  As I mentioned, the neighborhood throw-aways were a wealth of common tubes!  With all my little repair projects, I never had to buy one as a kid.

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Save Old Iron

It is not just a bad attitude that has changed this though, particularly with electronics..  If I open up my 1980's vintage radio tuner, I can see all the bits and work out what is in there. Try doing that with an Ipod.. the technology is just too different, and requires too much precision to work on using the classic manual tools (at least for most of it).  it is this level of precision and technological integration that has enabled the technology to move forward, and in some cases the cost reductions and quality improvements make it more attractive to manufacture a new one than repair on older one. I think that those of us who like to listen to music while mowing on our wheel horse are appreciative of the fact that we do not have to use a sony walkman with cassette tapes. :)

In a way, some of the repairs I do on more modern equipment like IPods is easier than on the older 70's vintage equipment. At this moment I have a Yamaha CR2020 receiver that is up on my repair bench. This is a receiver I could never hope to afford when it was introduced in the late 70's but I am lucky enough to have located one that needs a relatively simple (but costly) replacement of the output transistors. Soon enough, I will have a life long desire fulfilled.The CR2020 pumping out Journey on a set of freshly re-coned Altec Lansing Stonehenge speakers. Ahhh, like living back in the 70's again. Now if only I could get my SS Chevelle back and at least half the hair I lost raising my kids!

 

The Ipods purchased on ebay and repaired for my kids were not all that hard to diagnose. 99% of the time, someone sat on them and popped a leg off one of the IC's on the circuit board. Yes indeed, I did have go out and buy new tools, a stereoscopic microscope and a Maxtra hot air solder rework station to allow a simple reflow of the broken solder joint(s). The repair itself is rather easy with the correct equipment. From tube testers at the corner drug store to microscopes and reflow stations in a hobbyists basement - I wonder what the next 10 years will bring.

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wheeledhorseman

You had tube testers in stores for public use........ Wow!!!!! nothing like that over here but the first job I had on leaving school was in the electronics & power engineering labs of a university in London and they had an AVO tube tester. Sad thing is that I still have a couple of big boxes of tv, audio and radio tubes in my loft that all tested into the green. It was my first introduction to a world of equipment that I'd never come across before by manufacturers I'd not heard of either. Perhaps the most memorable was Wayne Kerr, amusing name as it sounds like a much used derogatory term over here.

 

On the audio front my lasting regret is that I was still living at home when my father got rid of his 'QUAD' tube amps which are still sought after and collected today so they went to an older cousin who still has them in use!. Back then lots of top of the range stuff was still designed and built in the UK but when he moved on to a solid state system he changed to a 'LEAK' tuner and amp having met and talked to the designer at the LOndon HI-FI show he used to go to each year. The QUAD power amps had two KT66 tubes in each for output and were used all over the world for both professional and domestic use.

 

Andy

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123GO
On 5/31/2013 at 1:43 AM, Save Old Iron said:

 Now if only I could get my SS Chevelle back and at least half the hair I lost raising my kids!

 

 

Wait!!!  

 Save Old Iron' you still have "half" your hair left? Why you lucky dog,

 After raising my 3 boys I just have a few short twigs left on the noggin.  Of course being sneaky most folks can't even tell since I do that comb over thing with 1 of those hairs.

 

  Oh ya' my memories of old Chevelle's they sure were nice rides, some fast too, had several friends with a built up 396 in thiers. Too long to type here but (2) funny, crazy yet at the same time sad stories about a couple. I've owned about every big block worth running that the "old" big 3 made in 60/70's but' I never owned a Chevelle nor a 396 because, close friends already had them I guess?   The 1967 and 1970 SS are my fav yrs, sadly both stories mentioned are about both yrs too. Possibly why never owned but idk? 

  Now' I'm posting to set your mind at ease some. Being an old dedicated motorhead myself (Mopars mainly) I still drove my ol' 69 Dodge Super Bee as my daily (family) driver up til 2012 when finally $3+ per gallon gas & 6 mpg simply sucked the fun out of it all. Half that mpg when you drive it like we drove in 60/70's before cops and cameras appeared on every corner. So' fwiw I'm just say'n your not missing near as much as you think you are, just the hair man. That old saying "It'll pass everything but a gas station" became oh' so brutally true dude... I sold them all, but' when fracking oil drove gas prices back down under a buck here I thought OMG what I just do! But' that thought sailed away as fast as an old Mopar Hemi.  Just after the big oil corps all joined forces and as usual, we lost again at the pump! No regrets selling my hot rods here Save Old Iron, notta one.

 

 Now' do you want to line our Wheel Horses up out at the strip tonight?  Lets run'em dude!!!...lol

 

* Ok' I now return you all back to Nerd corner...lol

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dcrage

Oh to still have our ‘favorite squirrel’ here as a definitive electronics commenter

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Bean701
Posted (edited)

How “sensitive” is this system to water?  Wanting to take my filthy new tractor down to the local coin-op for a hose-down but afraid that might kill my otherwise perfectly functional system monitor, which I find neater than shi...

Edited by Bean701

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pfrederi
Posted (edited)

If it is a 400 series with idiot lights or a 500 series I definitely wouldn't do it

Edited by pfrederi

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Bean701

It’s a 300

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123GO
2 hours ago, Bean701 said:

How “sensitive” is this system to water?  Wanting to take my filthy new tractor down to the local coin-op for a hose-down but afraid that might kill my otherwise perfectly functional system monitor, which I find nearer than shi...

   Well I "never" spray it directly into the block panel behind my dash but I've sprayed everywhere else on mine for yrs with no issues, it's a 414-8 (400 series). My test switch finally stopped working and needs replaced like so many others have due to a weak design & being rarely used but that was just recently and the lights worked until then. Back of switch came off so it actually fell apart one day when I tried it.

My 1976 B-100 has never had issues from pressure washing either, no dash lights though. The actual safety switches themselves are pretty tough, don't worry there.

My pressure washer is strong at 3100 psi so I use a med-wide spraying tip not a narrow one that can surely damage things and keep some nozzle distance. Most car washes use medium nozzles and only rate around 1100 psi so they won't be held liable for anything blowing off cars, including the dirt on one..lol  Beware' semi bays use much higher pressures so I wouldn't suggest using one at a truck stop on a wheel horse with dash lights if not experienced with pressure washing.

But ya' I do avoid the Dash both front/rear, never worried much about hurting the rest on mine really. Water is not the real worry here, its the pressure that will get you honestly, so keep some distance with your nozzle on edges of decals/electronics/gauges. Bit of common sense will take care of you with it.

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