418-C Motor

[pweber 0]

I've got a 418-c that smokes.  I'm not a small-engine mechanic so I've done the basics just to see what would happen.  I've replaced the air filter and cover, breather tube, spark plugs, fuel line, fuel filter, and I've cleaned out the breather assembly and put new gaskets in.  It still smokes, and even after a fresh oil change the oil is darkish and thin after one hour of use.  I burned maybe an eighth of a quart in one hour. 

 

My question:  A guy down the road has a 417-8 for sale.  Both motors are Kohler.  Mine is the K18QS, and I think his is the K17QS.  Is there any chance of swapping his motor for mine?  If so, what do I need to look at before I start ripping things apart. 

 

As I said, I'm not a small-engine tech, so unless its a fairly easy swap, mine may be going on Craigslist soon!  Any and all advice welcome.  Thanks. 

[MarkPalmer 80]

Your engine is likely a Magnum 18 twin, and the other a KT17 twin.  Other then the ignition systems, the engines are nearly the same physically and can be an easy swap if the crank PTO diameter is the same.  There were however two versions of the KT17, a series I and series II.  If the one for sale is a series I, I wouldn't bother with it.  The series II is about identical to your Magnum 18 with a full pressure lube system.   Perhaps your M18 just needs its cylinders delazed and new ring sets installed?  That isn't too bad of an undertaking, and the M18 is a pretty good engine that is worth working on. 

 

-Mark-

[dcrage 621]

For what it is worth, I just had my 418-A worked on for the same problem -- $450 got a valve job done at the dealer that originally sold this tractor 25+ years ago -- It doesn't smoke nearly as bad as it did before -- Now whether the oil usage problem is fixed, haven't had it long enough to tell yet

[pfrederi 17,193]

If you decide on the swap (which isn't all that hard) you will need a new ignition switch and have to do a bit of re wiring to convert from you magneto ignition to teh coil and points system on the KT17.  Agree with comment above make sure it is a Series II KT17motor Spec number greater than 24300 is a series II

[WH nut 553]

Old trick if you wanted to try. With engine running full RPM take and pour comet down the Carb a little at a time. If its glaze and rings not seating it will beglaze the cylinder walls. You really wont hurt the motor since its smoking already just dont over load it . A little at a time. I have done this before on a Ford 302 and it cleared right up.

[pweber 0]

Mark, will the K17 be labeled "Series I" or "Series II" anywhere?  Thanks for the heads-up.

 

WH Nut, Comet?  Really?  The liquid kind on the shelves these days or the old powdered kind that mom used to use for kitchen sinks back in the 70's?  Never heard of that.  Anyone else have luck with that?  I'll defintiely need some more feedback on that before I try that!  LOL

 

Thanks all.  If I keep this thing and get it running smoothly I'll put up some pics.  It mows like a champ.

[MarkPalmer 80]

The only place I know of where the external labeling was different on the KT17 versions was a decal on the air cleaner.  The series I label just reads  "Kohler twin 17", the Series II is lebeled "Kohler 17 Series II."  But the best way to check is by reading the spec number off the engine build tag as pfrederi mentioned, as somethines series I engines were replaced with a newer series II (after the series I blew up) but the old air cleaner was re-used. 

 

I have heard of the comet trick for seating new rings that are stubborn, but I have never been bold enough to try it.  I don't figure it would make old worn out rings any better as the wide end gaps in the worn rings is where the oil blows through. 

 

-Mark-

[WH nut 553]

Mark, will the K17 be labeled "Series I" or "Series II" anywhere?  Thanks for the heads-up.

 

WH Nut, Comet?  Really?  The liquid kind on the shelves these days or the old powdered kind that mom used to use for kitchen sinks back in the 70's?  Never heard of that.  Anyone else have luck with that?  I'll defintiely need some more feedback on that before I try that!  LOL

 

Thanks all.  If I keep this thing and get it running smoothly I'll put up some pics.  It mows like a champ.

Powder kind, you wont hurt it

The only place I know of where the external labeling was different on the KT17 versions was a decal on the air cleaner.  The series I label just reads  "Kohler twin 17", the Series II is lebeled "Kohler 17 Series II."  But the best way to check is by reading the spec number off the engine build tag as pfrederi mentioned, as somethines series I engines were replaced with a newer series II (after the series I blew up) but the old air cleaner was re-used. 

 

I have heard of the comet trick for seating new rings that are stubborn, but I have never been bold enough to try it.  I don't figure it would make old worn out rings any better as the wide end gaps in the worn rings is where the oil blows through. 

 

-Mark-

Most of the time the rings arent worn out, just glazed clyinder walls

[MarkPalmer 80]

What about the Comet going past the intake valves?  Wouldn't it abrade the guides and stems? 

 

-Mark-

[WH nut 553]

What about the Comet going past the intake valves?  Wouldn't it abrade the guides and stems? 

 

-Mark-

Whats he got to loose at this point? Im sure the guides are worn anyway.

[Callen 64]

Maybe your crankcase breather needs cleaned. If your rings are worn as bad as the oil consumption sounds I would think you would have oil blowing out of the CC breather.

[pweber 0]

I pulled the air filter off yesterday and oil was pooled up inside the housing.  I'm going to assume that the breather has a good sized puddle in it too.  I'm going to take the tractor into the shop this weekend to get an estimate on repairs.  Thanks for all the advice.