Newbie checking in... Suburban

[bell 11]

Hello! My name is Jon Bell, I have been into antique engines and lawn tractors for most of my life...

I recently purchased a wheel horse to restore with my kids.

I believe it to be a 1960 or 1961 Suburban, but I am not sure. It has been restored once already (probably 20 years ago, judging by the paint and decals)

It came with the original K90/ K91 and 2 other K-91's. Is there a way to tell the K90/ K91 apart?

Anyhow, thanks for any input and I look forward to being a active member... JB

[sshell 8]

Hi and welcome to Red Square. I am new here myself and everyone has been great helping to get me going in the right direction. Nice horse to restore with the kids. Making memories that they will never forget.And once again B)

[perry 82]

:whistle:

nice little tractor . looks like a 1960 suburban 400 to me.

[sorekiwi 761]

Nice tractor, I'd love to a 60 or 61 one day.

I cant help with your questions, but

Where are you from?

[Teddy da Bear 11]

B) Jon

[BPjunk 184]

Jon,

The tractor in the photo you posted is a 1960 Suburban 400. You can tell this by the throttle and choke lever on the back of the hood and there is no electrical wirirng. A 1961 Suburban series tractor will have push pull knobs for the throttle and choke controls. A Suburban 550/551 is a electric start tractor.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

B) , Jon!

Another way to distinguish the 1960's from the 1961's is by the clutch / brake pedal. The 1960 models used a piece of flat steel with a 90 degree bend for the pedal, and the 61's used a cast iron pedal. A lot of times the hood is missing on these tractors. (or even just cut off) If the tractor has footrests, the 60's will be diamond plate steel, and the 61's will be cast iron.

1961 Suburban footrests (c/b pedal is incorrect for this model, but similar)

As far as K-90 / K-91 differences go..... the cylinder head fins on a K-91 are straight across (parallel with the crankshaft) and the K-90 fins are angled. (on all the ones I have seen) I can't really think of any other obvious differences other than the I.D. tag.

[pond195520032003 27]

Hi Jon, and im with everyone else that it is a 1960 suburban 400! nice little tractor B)

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,347]

Jon,

Nice find on that little tractor. It will make a great project for you and your kids. B)

[bell 11]

Thanks guys.... I forgot to add that I'm from Centerpoint, Indiana... About 1 hour west of Indianapolis.

[sorekiwi 761]

Thanks guys.... I forgot to add that I'm from Centerpoint, Indiana... About 1 hour west of Indianapolis.

Not far from me, I'm near Coatesville Indiana.

Us hoosiers have to stick together to stop the foreigners stealing our horses and taking them out of state!

[bell 11]

Not far from me, I'm near Coatesville Indiana.

Us hoosiers have to stick together to stop the foreigners stealing our horses and taking them out of state!

I'm working on it... lol I'm working on buying another one as we speak... and have a line on another... B)

[bell 11]

Well, I just bought another... I believe it to be a 1961 Suburban, judging by the pedal.... All I really need off of it is the belt cover. I couldn't believe it was still there! I also got it for a VERY fair price...

I may be parting it out. If you need anything off of it, message me.

[linen beige 14]

B) Bell.

Wild Bill is correct in that the '60 used a throttle and choke lever behind the steering shaft, but the one mounted on yours is NOT the style used in '60. The originals mounted to a peice of channel steel that was bolted to the bottom of the hood and the levers protuded up through a rectangular hole in the hood. The '61s had a large round hole in that spot that was covered with a slightly "mounded" washer.

TT is correct in that the '61 used a cast iron foot rest and clutch brake pedal. And the foot rests on yours ARE from '60.

But the foot rests and clutch pedals are easily interchangable between the two models. A lot of '61s have had broken cast parts replaced with parts from '60s. Hoods can be interchanged as well.

Your pics are not clear enough to tell if yours has the rectangular hole ('60) in the hood or the round one ('61). I also can't tell from the pic if it has holes in the hood on either side of the steering shaft for the push/pull throttle/choke used in '61. It may have just one hole, on the right, as some '60s had a hole there that may have a "kill switch" mounted in it.

If your hood has a rectangular hole for the throttle/choke levers it is from a '60. If it has a round hole it is from a '61. If you have a '60 hood to match the '60 foot rests and '60 clutch pedal, then in all likelyhood, you have a '60.

Good luck with the restore!

[prpldude 0]

Welcome and enjoy the project. Hope you get addicted B)

[CasualObserver 3,406]

B) Looking forward to more pictures as you work on your tractor. Photo documented projects are a HUGE hit here! :whistle:

[bell 11]

Well, I worked on it some more tonight...

The original K-91 has some issues, so I'm going to try to get the other one running. It will get a full rebuild this winter, but I want to play around with it before I tear the tractor all the way down.

The engine I'm using is a pump engine... (has threaded crankshaft) so, today I swapped the cranks out.

This is what I found in the crankcase when I drained the oil...

Here are some various pics of the engines...

[bell 11]

I'm having trouble getting a spark... Could this be the culprit?

It does have some power to it, but not enough to bridge the spark plug gap... I Held on to the terminal and grounded my hand to the engine and recieved a little bit of a shock, but not as strong as it should be. Hmmm...? I tried the other one, but had no electricity at all. Also, I read (on here) that the plug wire, where it goes into the coil is just pressed in... So, I pulled it out... cut about 1/4" off and put it back in. No difference.

[bell 11]

I also found out why my throttle looked wierd... Somebody has modified it over the years... Funny what you find... At least they didn't drill a bunch of holes in it.

[bell 11]

Also, here are a couple pics of the exhaust shield and the original pull start.

Is it possible to repair this and make it reliable, or should I just use the "newer" style one?

[linen beige 14]

After seeing the rectangular opening in the hood I can say that the hood IS a 1960. The throttle lever looks like it is for an RJ-58 or RJ-59. The Kohler engine with spec # 31900a is a service engine and is not original to this tractor. The spec # for 1960 was 31388.

On your spark, give all the connections a GOOD cleaning and check the air gap between the flywheel and the magneto. I rebuilt a K-91 last spring that had been sitting idle and opened up for 34 years and it runs fine with the original coil.

[bell 11]

Thanks for the info...

Luckily, I'm not worried about it being totally correct... I just want it to appear original. Well, except for the tractor style muffler with flapper that it's going to have.

How would I go about checking the air gap between the flywheel and magneto?

[linen beige 14]

Checking the air gap of the flywheel to magneto is something I have not found an easy way to do, since the flywheel has to be mounted for the gap to be checked. I know I have Kohlers specs somewhere but can't find them. Chances are you can tell by any screw marks on the stationary magneto coil mounted to the bearing plate whether it has been moved. If the faces of the magnets in the flywheel and on the stationary mag. are clean, and the screws don't look like they have been scooted, then chances are the gap is at least close enough. You do want to check the point gap though. It affects timing and can be a cause of weak spark.

On the one I rebuilt last spring I at first did not think i had enough spark. After cleaning all the ignition system connections again it works just fine. I even started it with the 34 year old points in it.

[CasualObserver 3,406]

And ABSOLUTELY rebuild that starter! That's a Schnacke... and they're pretty desirable. If you don't feel like it... then sell it... but don't just trash it! They're easy to work on... it probably broke one of the ends of the spring and just needs a new bend to hold it in place. I fixed mine, no problems. You can get new cable wire from the hardware store too.

[combatmp29r 27]

Jon I'm not that far from you in Franklin IN, and Ken (Chevelletown) is on the north side of Indy.Bill, Terry, and Jim seem to have you pretty well taken care of so far, so just wanted to say welcome and feel free to top by and check out the herd or jut talk horses if your in the area.