C-130 questions

[haeffnkr 2]

I know where a c-130 is for sale.

What kind of hydro pump do these models have on them? Are they the prefered brand?

The owner states is has a 16 hp motor, is that the stock motor?

Anything to look for for these models?

What is a C series tiller and blade worth, ballpark?

thanks Kevin

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,350]

Kevin,

There was no C-130. There were a C-120 and a C-160, so if the 16 hp engine is original, then it's a C-160.

[kj4kicks 151]

Hi Kevin, I'm certainly no expert, but I've never heard of a C-130. If it has the 16 HP engine, it may be a C-160 ? C-165? Pics are also a big help when checking for values.

Double check it, and let us know.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,350]

Could be a C-161 or a C-162 also.

A little off-topic, but BTW, has anyone seen a C-162? I see it's listed, made in 1974 with a 16 hp Tecumseh, but I never seen one.

[linen beige 14]

Kevin,

There was no C-130.

WHAT?

I saw one friday afternoon.

A BIG gray one.

With Ky. Air National Guard markings.

It was doing pilot training circles around the area.

Seriously though, See if you can get the model number off the id tag. That will not only tell you the model, but also the year.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

If it is a C-120 Auto (it could also be an 8 speed) it will have either a Sundstrand (older) or Eaton (newer) transmission.

I don't think there is a strong preference on which is better.

If you get the spec and model number off the engine someone here can probably tell you when it was made.

Same thing for the tractor - Look for a metal ID plate under the dash or on the left side of the "tower". Having those numbers will allow you to look it up on Toro's web site and get the parts breakdown, etc.

Value is hard to nail down. As far as the tractor itself the condition of the engine and transmission are critical.

Tiller go for quite a bit. Look at the tines to see how far down they are worn. Figure $200+. Make sure it has the mid mount pulley piece - without that it is probably worth $100 less.

Snow blades typically go for $50 to 150. You will need the rear axle mount to use the blade or the tiller. Not all have this.

If all of this is together as a package (assuming good to excellent condition and a mower included) $300 would be a steal and 800 too much!

Best of luck B)

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,350]

Jim,

I was going to mentioned the Air Force C-130, but thought better of it. B)

[haeffnkr 2]

From the pics it looks like a C-160

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/770962901.html

When I talked to the guy I was not expecting him to say C-130 also.

Assume it is a C-160, what kind of pump does it have?

What are the attachments worth?

thanks Kevin

[rustyoldjunk 127]

it looks to be in pretty good condition from the photos and though attatchments would be a be plus (as long as they are in working order) but i think the price is a little high.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

From the pics it looks like a C-160

Assume it is a C-160, what kind of pump does it have?

What are the attachments worth?

thanks Kevin

My previous comments on the C-120 apply.

Why does it matter which Hydro it has? Both typed used on the Wheel Horses seem to take a licking ...

Cheers B)

[haeffnkr 2]

I believe the sundstrand were better pumps? From what IRC from this site?

The owner says the hydro is good, so I guess it does not matter.

wheelhorseofcourse - just missed your post earlier...sorry.

I always thought I wanted a C-160 but I dont really need one...so I am going over this in detail...

Still want to put hydro pump on a old style (62-62) model, so if I buy this I will still need to modify it...Need to post a different question about that...

So off topic a little but - for pushing snow...or moving dirt, I believe a geared transmission are better than a hydro right?

thanks Kevin

[wh500special 2,073]

So off topic a little but - for pushing snow...or moving dirt, I believe a geared transmission are better than a hydro right?

I much prefer hydros to gear transmissions for almost any task (except tilling since the tiller seems to push the tractor too easily). That tractor should have a Sundtrand Piston-Piston unit in it which is a stout transmission (with some inherent weaknesses) but make sure you keep it clean and maintained regularly. If it has power now (in the ungodly heat of St. Louis summertime) it will have power aplenty in the winter. Just keep the oil clean and use the Toro filter.

They generally degrade in performance slowly rather than in one casastrophic event. So if it seems to work well now you can reasonably expect it to stay that way for a good while. Again, cleanliness of the oil is the big deal here. Oh, and run the engine at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) when the tractor is in motion.

Hydros are ESPECIALLY good at pushing snow. I think MUCH better than gear units. I haven't found any GT to be that great at blading dirt, so I doubt the transaxle is the limiting factor there...shoulb be about equal gear vs. hydro in most "durability/performance" comparisons. The hydros are certainly more convenient to use.

HP loss to motivate the tractor is negligible when you have a 16 HP engine sitting under the hood.

The variable speed lets you start blading slowly until you build up a little momentum and traction. Then you can push the lever all the way fwd and fly down the driveway while watching the snow "curl" off the end of the blade. The higher speed really makes plowing go easier - just be sure you know where any fixed obstacles are or you'll be soon laying on the steering wheel or have something to repair. Whenever possible, I always plow at top speed since it works so much more efficiently than slowly pushing a mound of snow in front of the blade.

And, with no shifting it is a lot easier to reverse at the end of a run than with a gear.

lastly, if you have hydraulic lift too it makes blading all the more enjoyable.

When it is cold, be sure to let the transmission warm up a few minutes before loading it up. Start the tractor, engage the transmission belt, and let it run in Neutral. Then put your coveralls on, gloves, hat, etc. Shovel the spots the tractor won't reach...

btw- I think the price on that tractor is a little high, but if you don't need all the attachments you can eBay them and bring your net cost down some. My last two C160's in your area (with decks only) were in the $300 neighborhood but don't look as nice.

Go speedracer...

Steve

[CasualObserver 3,406]

This C-130 is kinda red.... maybe if Wheel Horse had used a few of these, there could have been more distribution to the west!

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,350]

Kevin,

I posted a link to that ad in the "For Sale" section here. It's definitely a C-160. Looks like a nice package with the snow plow and tiller.

[haeffnkr 2]

OK - got dibs on this.

Yes,

I called the guy back and he stated it was a c-160.

Not sure which of us had the mixup.

So to continue off of Steve's comments. (Which I greatly appreciate...)

If I want to plow snow off of my driveway...and my neighbors...is a hydro better than a geared transmission?

I guess what I am asking, is those guys who have both tractors - hydro and geared, tell me what is better to use/drive/play with and most importantly plow snow, with.

thanks Kevin

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,130]

I have a 414-8 and a 416-H. I use the 414-8 with a snow plow and the hydro 416 with a snow blower. I like the 8-speed with the plow for several reasons.

1. The 8-speed doesn't require to warm up the transmission in the winter, the hydro does.

2. The 8-speed has a nice constant speed pushing the snow with the plow.

3. Lifting the plow with the manual lift isn't all that difficult.

I like the hydro with the snow blower (deeper snow) because.

1. The blower is heavy, hydraulic lift is really nice

2. The blower gets used with larger snow falls, the hydro has better ground speed control to clear the snow without going too fast or too slow.

One thing to keep in mind with the hydro's is they do require to be warmed up in the winter, about 10 minutes. That said:

I wouldn't trade my hydro's for the world. Don't get me wrong, the 8-speed's are nice reliable units, but I'm lazy and the hydro's are much easier to work with the hydraulic lifts and variable ground speeds.

When Dale reads this, he'll give more benefits of the 8-speed and how they are better than hydro's

Either way, a C-160 automatic is a great machine! I have one and wouldn't trade it for the world!

[charger10us 1]

I have 11 0r12 Wheel Horse garden tractors & I have both hydros. & geared..

I like both, BUT I belive that you can do just as much work with a hydro as you can with a geared Wheel Horse. I have a 1968 Charger10 that we got in 1972 it has pushed alot of snow,dirt,gravel,& alot of asfalt grindings. It has plowed & dist the garden till this year ( I used the C-195) this year. Yes in the winter the hydro needs to warm up some, it takes mine about 2 or 3 minutes. Mine had the fluid changed in 1972 at the JD dealer when we got it, & has never been changed sence.

It is still just as strong now as it was then. For the last 36 years this little tractor has been like the little brother to me, && I have mistreated it like one too!!! Now, in all of my dealings of W.H. garden tractors that I've bought & sold, I HAVE had some bad Eton rears,,, BUT KNOCK ON WOOD I have NEVER had a bad Sunstrand!! Now for tractor pulling, I'm told the hydro's will not hold up, but for garden & yard work I think they are great. Someday I would like to hook up the little Charger to a sled just to see what it will do !!! B)

[C-Series14 15]

No C-162...it should read C-160 on the list....

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,350]

OK - got dibs on this.

Kevin,

I'm just glad someone from this site will be getting it. It's a nice package.

No C-162...it should read C-160 on the list....

I was wondering it that was a typo..... B)

[kpinnc 10,981]

Mine had the fluid changed in 1972 at the JD dealer when we got it, & has never been changed sence.

You may want to have it changed. It probably has Dextron in it, and that's a good thing, but I'd say U R DUE!

It may take a little longer to warm up with fresh fluid in it, but that may be a good thing...

Kevin

[linen beige 14]

Not to cloud the issue, , but when we do get our rare few inches of snow here I fire up my 702. It has a three speed manual transmission AND the optional HY-2 hydro lift. Since the blade doesn't have trip springs and is set up for down pressure, I just like being able to keep one hand on the wheel and the other on the lift handle. I also have a Charger-9 with hydro trans and manual lift. It's a workout keeping up with the levers! Left hand on lift, right hand on wheel- left hand on wheel, right hand on motion lever- repeat. I feel like I'm playing patty cake! Maybe that's why I haven't put but 2 hours on it in three years. And a D-160 hydro drive/ hydro lift. The D is a little easier to use with the hydro lift, and I can steer with my left hand and work levers with the right, but it's still awkward compared to the 702.

[wh500special 2,073]

As usual, everybody is making great points on this. My preference just leans toward hydros.

Jim's right about having a bunch of levers to mess with on the hydro tractors with hydraulic lift. i think the only situation that results in a higher levers:hands ratio would be on a loader equipped tractor. In that instance, the gear drive wins since you can enter a pile and adjust forward motion with the clutch pedal while fussing with the steering and lift/curl levers at the same time. Only time required to remove a hand from either the valves or the wheel would be to shift gears.

Too bad the foot control was an option on the hydros...and a scarce one at that.

But, like I said before, i prefer the hydrostats in almost every other situation. They may not be optimized for tractor pulls, but they will provide more power to the ground than you'll have traction for anyway. And for mowing/blading/general messing around they are so much more convenient.

It looks like the tractor you're after has the hydraulic lift...so:

For blading snow, you'll probably want to set the blade up with a chain or something to hoist it from the ground while allowing it to "float" up and down over any undulating ground contours. You can set it up with a solid lift link (to provide down pressure) if you like, but then you'll have to keep a hand on the lift lever (like Jim does on the 702) all the time. if you let it float, plowing snow is easier. On gravel, i also like to pitch the blade forward so it catches less frequently too and pushes less of my $17/ton limestone into the grass.

Now, for grading dirt the solid lift link works better and you probably want to pitch the blade back some for a better bite. You'll be moving slow anyway and need to "hold" the blade in position relative to the tractor to do any cutting into the soil. For the final grade, drop the blade on the ground and go backwards. I'm not patient enough to use the WH for dirt work though and have the luxury of a much bigger tractor to use for tasks like that. I have moved gravel with a D180 and its 56" blade, but would have been better off with something else.

I also prefer the 42" blade over the 48-incher since a full blade of snow is less apt to slide the front of the tractor around with the smaller blade (I do not have front wheel weights). On the downside, when the blade is angled to either side I often find that the rear wheel weights hit the pile of snow I just shoved out of the way and knock a little back into the cleared swath. But the tradeoff for me is better control with the smaller blade. The blade in the picture of "your" tractor looks like a 42" to me.

Again, i prefer to run the tractor as fast as possible when pushing snow and the hydro allows that to happen very easily. If you have a short driveway it probably doesn't make much difference which you use. You'll be amazed at how quickly a blade can clear a decent snowfall too. But if you were stuck deep in the snowbelt like Karl is, that blade will only go so far until you have tall piles each side of the drieway and nowhere left to put the next one.

In my opinion ( everybody start rolling your eyes now ) the early C160's were WH's best effort. EVER. Simple design, proven engines, rugged construction, readily available attachments, reasonably agile, plenty of power. About the only thing I don't like about them is how loud they are. Gear or Hydro, you won't go wrong with a C160. Not the most refined of the lot, but they are tough and last seemingly forever. I own (or have owned) just about everything else WH made and I really think the early C's are the best all around workers.

One of my C160's (with a replacement hood) is shown with my kiddo in my Avatar. Great tractor (and a great boy too who turned 4 last week). What you can't see in the photo is the 18" snowfall it just finished clearing from the driveway which was neatly piled about 4' high on each side of the drive using nothing but the 42" blade and chains (no weights that time).

You'll be very happy with that C160.

Steve

[linen beige 14]

Too bad the foot control was an option on the hydros...and a scarce one at that.

Gear or Hydro, you won't go wrong with a C160. Not the most refined of the lot, but they are tough and last seemingly forever.

Aint that the truth! I plan on fabbing up a foot control for my D-160.

I do use my 702 for moving dirt and the down pressure is great. I also drag backwards for a quick leveling, but if I'm doing finish grading over a fairly large area, I use my grader box on my 1054a. It is also a three speed stick with hydro lift.

I guess the main reason I like the stick shift/ hydro lift so much is that I was brought up on a Ferguson TO-20. It had a center mounted stick shift and a hydro lift. My 702 seems like a junior version of it, and a foot clutch just feels right.