D-180 Electric Fuel Pump

[JamesBe1 82]

Hi folks. I have a D-180 that I am resurrecting. I am most of the way there except for several petty problems. On my particular tractor, someone removed the impulse fuel pump, and installed an electric fuel pump inline with the fuel line. It is mounted on the sheet metal on the left side of the tractor, and wired directly to hot through a toggle switch that was installed on the dash. I have to manually turn it on whenever I want to start the tractor.

I would like to rewire this to remove the toggle switch, and be energized through the key switch when it is in the run position. I was wondering where would be the best place to connect it to.

Any suggestions?

[pfrederi 18,376]

Try the coil (ignition) wire it is hot during cranking and running

[Hodge71 665]

James, I had the same problem with mine. Although my wiring was a disaster with splices and electrical tape everywhere. I cleaned up my wiring and ran my new electric fuel pump from the same terminal as the trans temp gauge. I ran it through a fuse for proper overcurrent protection. With an electrical meter you can find which terminal on the back of the keyswitch has power only when the key is in the on position. Good luck

[73-18 automatic 8]

If you can read the terminals it should be labeled R or run

[JamesBe1 82]

Thank guys. I was wondering about the trans temp gage. Mine doesn't seem to be working. I have had a couple of different hydro pumps in my tractor, and possibly three different sending units. Still no indication on the gage. It may be the gage, or the sending unit or the wiring. I have a little troubleshooting to do there.

If I find that there is power there, I might want to connect the fuel pump to that since it is out of sight under the dash.

[73-18 automatic 8]

Sounds like a good idea

[JamesBe1 82]

If you can read the terminals it should be labeled R or run

Thanx. 73-18. I have a schematic. I was wondering if anyone had done it before, and had found the best way to do it. I am sure that there are several different ways to connnect it, but I figured that yous guys (can you tell I am from jersey?) might have found that certain ways caused problems or not. That's the thing about experience, you don't know what you don't know until you know it. I figured I'd tap into the collective experience to see if someone here know something better. Sorry if that sounds creepy or condescending, it isn't meant to be. Just fishing for knowledge.

James

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,401]

The other option is to use a test light and figure out what gets power when the key is turned to the "on" position. I would then make sure to add a blade type in line fuse. Not sure what amp you will need but I would think 15 or 20 amp should be enough. Good luck-

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

see if someone here know something better

If the engine had a pulse pump, why not replace it with a pulse pump?

Example: http://tewarehouse.com/22-1009?sc=2&category=30

No wiring, compact, less money, and easier to install.

[JamesBe1 82]

see if someone here know something better

If the engine had a pulse pump, why not replace it with a pulse pump?

Example: http://tewarehouse.c...c=2&category=30

No wiring, compact, less money, and easier to install.

I thought about it, but then decided there would be no benefit to removing the existing electric pump and installing an impulse pump. That would be a waste of a good fuel pump (the existing electric one).

If the electric one ever breaks, then I will probably go back to the impulse pump. However, whoever installed the electric pump, took the trouble to remove the vacuum line that goes back to the gas tank area. I'm not sure if the impulse pump needs to be close to the tank or not, but that is just how it is show in the D-180 parts manual.

Thanx for your input Terry. It's much appreciated.

James

[JamesBe1 82]

The other option is to use a test light and figure out what gets power when the key is turned to the "on" position. I would then make sure to add a blade type in line fuse. Not sure what amp you will need but I would think 15 or 20 amp should be enough. Good luck-

Good idea. The current one doesn't have a fuse. I'm not sure how much current it draws. I'll probably look up the specs later and pick up a fuse and holder.

Yet another splice in the wires

James

[1maidenfan 202]

TT , This fuel pump you posted a link to ( If the engine had a pulse pump, why not replace it with a pulse pump?

Example: http://tewarehouse.c...c=2&category=30) is thisa replacement for the factory impulse fuel pump?

Thanks.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

To be honest, I don't know what a D series used originally.

I'm guessing they were more like the Mikuni-style rectangular pump?

http://tewarehouse.com/7-08017

That pump I linked to in my other post is used on newer Kohler and Briggs & Stratton twins.

[JamesBe1 82]

The toro number for the impulse fuel pump is 103085. My opinion is that there is not a lot of variation between impulse fuel pumps, however, Mikuni is supposedly the best. But for a tractor, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

I use a Mikuni in my ultralight with a rotax 277. That is one place where you have to have confidence in your equipment, lol. Loosing your fuel pump at 10,000 feet is a big deal. I've seen it happen.

James

[JamesBe1 82]

James, I had the same problem with mine. Although my wiring was a disaster with splices and electrical tape everywhere. I cleaned up my wiring and ran my new electric fuel pump from the same terminal as the trans temp gauge. I ran it through a fuse for proper overcurrent protection. With an electrical meter you can find which terminal on the back of the keyswitch has power only when the key is in the on position. Good luck

That's exactly what I did this afternoon. It works great. I got rid of the old wire from the pump and spliced in new. I had to use a butt splice, but I covered the ends with liquid electrical tape. It's not elegant, but it will work nicely.

Now I have an extra toggle switch on my dash. I think I will use it to control the lights that are on top of my FEL. The current setup is the FEL lights are spliced into the headlight wiring. I think I would prefer to have them on a separate circuit just to have the choice of either the headlights, the FEL lights or both. Also, I get to use the toggle switch for something useful instead of having a hole in the dash for no reason.

James

[1maidenfan 202]

I checked on that "toro" fuel pump number and it is the correct one BUT they want like a $100 for it! Ouch. :jaw:

[JamesBe1 82]

I checked on that "toro" fuel pump number and it is the correct one BUT they want like a $100 for it! Ouch.

Yes, they mark up their parts way too much. I do my best to never by oem, and instead use source or aftermarket.

In the case of the fuel pump, it may or may not be of better quality, but I can't see paying 2000% extra for for a 10% increase in quality.

[Hodge71 665]

Maiden I almost bought that fuel pump from my Toro dealer when I first started having all the problem with the POS pump that was in mine. I went and bought a Mr. Gasket 12s fuel pump for $29 and havent looked bak since. This pump works great. Now I just need to get the tractor back together so I can use it....

[pfrederi 18,376]

When you are looking at which switch terminal to use you want one energized in the on position AND the Start position. Having the pump working while cranking would be a good idea, especially if the tractor has been sitting for a long time. On most switches the A (accessory) terminal is NOT energized during cranking (Start Position)

[JamesBe1 82]

Maiden I almost bought that fuel pump from my Toro dealer when I first started having all the problem with the POS pump that was in mine. I went and bought a Mr. Gasket 12s fuel pump for $29 and havent looked bak since. This pump works great. Now I just need to get the tractor back together so I can use it....

I'm interested. Were was the impulse pump located on your tractor? And - I know this is a stretch, any idea of who the manufacturer is?

[JamesBe1 82]

When you are looking at which switch terminal to use you want one energized in the on position AND the Start position. Having the pump working while cranking would be a good idea, especially if the tractor has been sitting for a long time. On most switches the A (accessory) terminal is NOT energized during cranking (Start Position)

Actually, I replaced the spade connector that connects to the back of the temp gage with a new one in which I had crimped both wires (the feed from the switch, and the new wire to the pump).

You bring up a good point. Too bad I didn't know that before I wired it up. I guess I'll be checking that out after it warms up a bit today. I'll put the voltmeter on the wires and check for voltage as it is cranking.

See - tapping into the collective wisdom does work. If only I had gone a little slower and given it a chance to kick in.

[JamesBe1 82]

When you are looking at which switch terminal to use you want one energized in the on position AND the Start position. Having the pump working while cranking would be a good idea, especially if the tractor has been sitting for a long time. On most switches the A (accessory) terminal is NOT energized during cranking (Start Position)

Kudos to you Paul. I checked it this afternoon, and there was no power to the fuel pump while the engine was cranking. I guess I'll have to rewire it to the ignition terminal. Unfortunately, on mine, the ignition wire from the switch goes directly to the coil, bypassing any interlocks. I figured I would wire the PTO interlock back into the circuit, but when I checked it, it was electrically open all the time. I even manually pushed the small ball back into it's recess, and there was no continuity in the switch. I am not too worried about not having the interlock in the circuit except that it presented a convenient place to draw power for the fuel pump. I think I'll leave it out and wire it into the back of the ignition plug somehow. I am going to have to find a supply of those spring lock spade terminals that go into the switch plug. Any ideas?

I looked through my local HD and hardware store yesterday, no luck. I spent the afternoon going through a local TCS (my favorite store), and no luck again. I was hoping to find a fuel valve there too, but nope.

Anyhow, I will definitely have to figure out a way to wire it into the ignition wire.

Thanx for your input, it was a great help.

James

[1maidenfan 202]

Maiden I almost bought that fuel pump from my Toro dealer when I first started having all the problem with the POS pump that was in mine. I went and bought a Mr. Gasket 12s fuel pump for $29 and havent looked bak since. This pump works great. Now I just need to get the tractor back together so I can use it....

I'm interested. Were was the impulse pump located on your tractor? And - I know this is a stretch, any idea of who the manufacturer is?

The pump on my D is located under the seat on the frame rail, Don't recal manufactures name, would have to go look.

[1maidenfan 202]

Maiden I almost bought that fuel pump from my Toro dealer when I first started having all the problem with the POS pump that was in mine. I went and bought a Mr. Gasket 12s fuel pump for $29 and havent looked bak since. This pump works great. Now I just need to get the tractor back together so I can use it....

Is that an impulse pump like the original one? where did you find that one at?

Thanks

[pfrederi 18,376]

When you are looking at which switch terminal to use you want one energized in the on position AND the Start position. Having the pump working while cranking would be a good idea, especially if the tractor has been sitting for a long time. On most switches the A (accessory) terminal is NOT energized during cranking (Start Position)

Kudos to you Paul. I checked it this afternoon, and there was no power to the fuel pump while the engine was cranking. I guess I'll have to rewire it to the ignition terminal. Unfortunately, on mine, the ignition wire from the switch goes directly to the coil, bypassing any interlocks. I figured I would wire the PTO interlock back into the circuit, but when I checked it, it was electrically open all the time. I even manually pushed the small ball back into it's recess, and there was no continuity in the switch. I am not too worried about not having the interlock in the circuit except that it presented a convenient place to draw power for the fuel pump. I think I'll leave it out and wire it into the back of the ignition plug somehow. I am going to have to find a supply of those spring lock spade terminals that go into the switch plug. Any ideas?

I looked through my local HD and hardware store yesterday, no luck. I spent the afternoon going through a local TCS (my favorite store), and no luck again. I was hoping to find a fuel valve there too, but nope.

Anyhow, I will definitely have to figure out a way to wire it into the ignition wire.

Thanx for your input, it was a great help.

James

I am sure purists will complain but i would just use a crimp on tap (technically an insulation piercing wire tap, see thumbnail) on some open stretch of the coil wire.