D-180 trans oil

[cazngz 19]

I have a D-180. Year unknown but it doesn't have an oil filter. It does have one for the trans. The filter is a car filter, fram D-16 to be exact. I would guess the year to be early to mid 70's. Since I have the unit ( approx 10 years ) it's had Dextron trans oil in it. I changed the oil and the filter when I got the machine. Filters were changed every year since and another complete change after the first five years. The service manual ( I don't know if its correct for this tractor ) states to use Dextron. The manual indicated it had an oil filter which it doesn't have so I am under the assumption that the info about the Dextron may not be right either. Later manuals seem to indicate motor oil like 10/30. But those manuals online from Wheelhorse only refer to the D-160 then go right to the D-200. Did they stop making the D-180 earlier ?

I've been using the Dextron and the car filters for all these years. Lately it seems it doesn't run as fast as it used to when pushing snow although it still spins the tires when I hit an ice bank. The blade is slower to lift but I would guess that the lift cylinder/pump is responsible for that ?

Sorry for the long intro.. my question is can I start using motor oil in it and will it negate the slight slippage that I may have ? I'm assuming if it originally took Dextron it should have had a different filter on it ? I doubt if a small Ford Bronco/Blazer could push much better than this one. Very fast front and back. Any other info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nate

[rmaynard 14,909]

:WRS: I'm not a hydro man, but according to this publication, http://www.wolverine...lubrication.pdf,

the D-180 should be using SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 engine oil in the transmission. However, if you have been using something else, either stick with what been used or completely flush the tranny before replacing the fluid with motor oil. And of course, replace the filter. I don't know if the Fram D-16 is correct. Most guys prefer to use the proper Toro brand filter.

[can whlvr 991]

well theres different opinions on the oil changeing,i think id leave it be,but i do know that the tranny filter SHOULD be a hydrolic filter,not one for a car engine,a hydro filter has no bypass in it,

[Trouty56 565]

Hi Nate,

NAPA Gold 1410 oil filter will do the job if you don't have a Toro dealer close by. D-180 tractors were made in 74 and 75 and, like Bob said, used motor oil in the hydro unit. There are mixed opinions on changing the oil type. Fortunately mine hasn't been altered so I don't have to make that decision. If you can spin the wheels stay with what you got and maybe look at the linkage as a possible culprit for loss of responsiveness.

[cazngz 19]

What a great cart from Toro. Explains that, as you said, they only made the D-180 for 2 years, 74 & 75 and why the jump to to D-200. If I can scan the Manual I have, I'll try to post it just to make sure you guys don't think I was hallucinating. Maybe if I read it again I'll understand why they specified Dextron. Also explains why a car oil filter was on it when I got it. Now if i can figure out what they stuck Dextron in it somewhere along the line with a car filter ??? Well.. at least I know the trans oil was changed at least 3 times since I have it.

Anyone actually change Dextron trans oil to motor oil ? If I drain it will I create an air lock somwhere that will cause problems ? I'm trying to figure out how much residual Dextron will be left after I drain as much as I can. Just trying not to get excited if I change it and it doesn't move..

Nice to see a general agreement by those who answered this. I'm guessing I got lucky ?

Thanks,

Nate

[Trouty56 565]

Maybe you have an 18 Auto from '73 instead of a D-180. Read this thread in it's entirety.

[cazngz 19]

Well.. I did a bit of checking. Seems they did make a 1973 D-180 w/ Dexron oil. In that same year they also had a change over to Type F hydraulic oil ( wheelhorse number 8827, whatever that means ) So the Dexron oil I have in mine may be correct. Only thing thats not correct is the Fram D-16 filter. According to Toro you can change the oil to the type F or the 10/30 or 10/40 but not surprisingly it has to be a complete flush of everything which may be easier said than done.

I looked at the overhaul procedure for the Sunstrand hydro and its well beyond what I would tackle. Toro claims to sell this info but it downloaded fully on my computer if anyone is interested.

Changing to engine or hydraulic oil is out for the time being but I might try type F ( old Ford ATF fluid ) for a bit more bite. If, of course its not hydraulic oil to begin with. I don't know the difference except all the hydraulic oil i've seen is not red like ATF fluids. And type F from Ford is getting a bit harder to find.

Nate

[TT-(Moderator) 1,128]

@Nate:

I don't know where that info came from, but it's wrong.

At no time was Type F ATF ever used in a Sundstrand hydro unit - nor should it ever be.

Type A was used in the Hydrogear units from 1965 to sometime in 1973, when the piston-to-piston unit replaced them. (Dexron is the "modern-day" substitute for type A ATF) There are no clutch packs or friction discs of any sort in a Sundstrand hydro, so using a "gritty" fluid is sure to mean destruction.

Someone who has one will need to verify this, but it sure looks like all four "versions" of the 1973 18 Automatic (and all of the D-160/180/200) tractors had the Sundstrand piston-to-piston unit. 10W-30 or 10W-40 "motor oil" would be my fluid of choice.

[Trouty56 565]

Just read a 1973 18 Auto manual.....for what version I don't know.....

States Dexron or type F Hydraulic oil......must have changed to motor oil in 74 with the D-180.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,128]

States Dexron or type F Hydraulic oil

What on Earth is "type F hydraulic oil" though?

I still wouldn't use type F ATF.

[Trouty56 565]

IDK.....It does reference WH part # 8827 tho....Mine is a 74 D-180 and has motor oil in it. They are all the same Sundstrand hydro trannys...18 Auto thru the D series. I was reading about Dexron and it mentioned using whale sperm oil as a lubricant. I thought "What???" I read it again....sperm whale oil....lol....

[rmaynard 14,909]

Crazy as it may seem, I have a 2003 AWD Chevy Astro. When we first got it, we were having a lot of trouble with the transfer case slipping and making the van feel like it was missing. The dealer actually put whale oil in the transfer case. That was the fix until GM came out with what is now referred to as Smurf Oil. It's a blue fluid that has solved all the problems.

Type F is an automatic transmission fluid designed for all Ford Motor Company transmissions built prior to 1977.

[cazngz 19]

I believe they meant sperm whale oil, not whale sperm oil which hopefully is completely different. LOL.. Trouty 56 you must have read the same literature I did. Definately states Dexron or Type F hydraulic fluid. Wheh I posted that I might try a bit of type F ATF for a bit of bite I was indeed referring to the old Ford type F ATF, not the type F hydraulic oil which Toro referenced.

As it turns out I had a few extra minutes yesterday and I called and spoke to a lube specialist from Valvoline. What he told me was that I could add a bit of type F Ford ATF. The Dexron and Ford fluid will mix w/o a problem. I even gave him the W/H 8827 number and he immediately stated that was a hydraulic fluid. When I commented that I was suprised that he was familar with the old WH products he chuckled and said he doesn't get many calls about them so when he does he remembers them.

Sooo.... bottom line seems to be if you have an old 73 that has Dexron in it you can add a bit of type F if you want to experiment a bit before tearing the hydro apart. Not saying its a good idea but when I saw the procedure for rebuilding a hydro I probably would try a bit of Ford F ATF before tearing it apart. Kinda like belt dressing. Helps a bit at first but don't overuse it.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually tried this and what the results were.

Nate

[Hodge71 663]

Not sure if I'm going to help or going to hurt, but I just got my 73 18 auto which is basically a D-180. It has the original factory sticker under the seat pan that states use Type A automatic transmission oil, Yet the owners manual states Dexron, type F, or Wheel Horse #8827. I can tell you theres definitely motor oil in mine. I cant post a pic on here for some reason or I could show it.

[cazngz 19]

Hey Jeff, not too far away from you. I'm near Beltzville lake by Lehighton, Pa. Good luck on your D-180. They are great machines. Change the fluids and filters. If yours is like mine there's no oil filter, just a trans filter. Old machines have a habit of sucking gas past the valves and diluting the oil so frequent oil changes are a must. I put a gas stop on the gas line by the carb. Mine was letting the gas past the carb while I wasn't using it resulting in a flooding condition when I tried to start it.

Seems we can run Dexron or motor oil, just not at the same time. And if you have the 18 auto that is indeed, a D-180. They have automatic on the side of the hood. In reality its a hydro.

[Hodge71 663]

@Cazngz,

Great to have a Wheel Horse neighbor. I know Beltzville very well, I fish there quite a bit. I have wanted one of these beasts since I was 6 and started cutting my parents acre and a quarter with my Dads 73 12 auto (C-120). My dad has every piece of literature for the 73 model year. I used to read all his literature and they had a special spot in the books for the D Estate Tractor. I finally got mine, its really rough around the edges and was pretty abused in its previous life but the price was right. I can say I have alot of mechanical ability( thanks to Dad) and will have her all fixed up soon enough. Hopefully she'll be motivating on her own today, and plowing snow on my road and driveway this winter..

[massey 111]

cazngs,

I grew up in Lehighton, used to water ski on Beltzville, lots of good times back in the day. Welcome aboard.

Ed

[cazngz 19]

Well Jeff and Ed, this truly is a small world. Two fellow WH owners from my neck of the woods. We used to run our dirt bikes when they were building the dam in my younger days. Lots of fun.

I bought a snow/dozer blade with the A frame when I got the tractor 10 years ago. Big bucks. Little did I know at the time my next door neighbor had the whole setup sitting for scrap along with other stuff against a tree. Oh well.... My blade is 56 inches long and 20 inches high ( measured in a straight line ) I've hit many an ice bank that lifted the tractor in the air stopping it dead in its tracks with no apparent harm to the tractor or the blade. I'd hate to think what a similar machine would cost me. Put some weight in the back and watch her go. I don't even bother getting it out until the snow is more than 6 inches. Makes for a nice roll off the blade. Post some pics if you are able..

Nate