Soil solidifying with PolyPavement

[IthacaJeff 151]

Hi all;

A month or so ago I asked about super-packable driveway material to turn my

driveway into a court. Many good suggestions, and in my searching came across a

number of "soil solidification" products. Basically mix it in with dirt, pack it down,

and you have a rock hard driveway, road, walkway, etc. Well, I bit the bullet and

bought a 5 gal "trial size" of PolyPavement to test run on the walkway outside my

shed. Expensive; $199 plus $50 shipping. But, if this stuff works, I could be able

to do my driveway for about 1/4 the cost of asphalt.

Here are the procedures in a nutshell.

1. Level out the area, same as any sort of driveway, etc. I first had to remove the

gravel and weeds in the area. Took a lot of time to clear out about a 220 sq ft. area.

2. Pack down the area. I used a garden roller and hand tamper. It took a lot of

work to screed gravel from the soil (homebuilt screed with 1/2" hardware cloth),

level, compact, add dirt, level, compact. . . .

3. Calculate the right amount of PolyPavement. This is based on soil type (mine is

kind of clayey) and how you want to apply it. You can mix it in the soil with a tiller

for a more heavy duty and permanent application, or spray on the top. For this

application I decided in the spray on. Used two gallons of PolyPavement for 18 gal

of water, applied in three different applications. (I still need to add the third after

it all dries). The first is the penetration application, followed by the hardening

application, then the sealing application. Each may have a different dilution ratio

and coverage amount.

4. Mix it up and apply. I tried out application methods and concluded an old

watering can would work best. Probably didn't, as it was hard to get an even

coverage. You can see in the pics the 5 gal buckets, watering can, large bin to mix

it all up in, and an old milk jug I used to measure things out. I used measuring

cups in the house to mark off the jug. VERY useful.

I'll keep you posted on the results after drying and curing.

Jeff in Enfield, NY

Screeding the dirt.

Leveling the area

Finally ready to go. Leveled with a bit of drainage, even mixed in a bit of sand

from the tube sand that was in the back of my truck.

Soil suitability test. It clumps when squeezed and breaks apart without crumbling.

I happend to grab dirt for the photo from an area that I had raked off some

organic material, which is not really okay.

Tools of the trade. Instruction from online where invaluable, much better than

what came with the bucket.

Bucket was a week late in coming, but we were flooded a bit from tropical storm

Lee. Needed 50 deg plus days and NO freezing, even at night, to insure curing.

I'm in upstate NY. It is a bit of a gamble on my part, which is one reason why I

chose the spray-on application over the mix in method. I used about 1.5 gal of

PolyPavement vs. the 5 gal bucket.

Lots of calculations to determine how much to use and concentration.

Bucket city.

Two "coats" of PolyPavement done by watering can. Made a mistake of walking on

the surface during the second coat -- needed to walk on it to get to the back

areas -- and got some muddy footprints. We'll see how those turn out!

[HorseFixer 2,013]

Pretty neat will be interesting to see the results!

~Duke

[Coadster32 793]

needed to walk on it to get to the back

Painted yourself in a corner...did ya Maybe a garden hose with a wand might work too. You may have better reach.

Very interesting indeed. I'll be watching this closely as well. Thanks for posting this up.

[IthacaJeff 151]

An update on the PolyPavement. It has been a week and I have concerns. It does not

seem to have dried out. It is supposed to dry, then take about a month to cure. Not

a whole lot different from many products. We've have enough dry, warm, sunny

days, but we've also had a lot of rain. I've covered it with tarps to keep the rain off,

but also lots of dew in the mornings. It just seems like it is permanently wet. Not

sure if it is the product, if it simply is the weather, or what. But now I've got worms

making all sorts of holes, and weeds starting to sprout (sprayed some Roundup).

Not sure if it will dry out eventually or if I've just got a mud pit.

I've got 3 gals left that will wait until spring to try out on a different spot. I have not

given up hope yet.

Jeff

[can whlvr 993]

sorry to not get back about the non shrink fill,my buddy left the plant and they wont disclose there secrets,they are diffacult to deal with at the best of times,sorry ti hear about the stuff that you used,i still stand by limestone screenings and portland mixed in,the screenings are hard enough and the portland will really firm it up and then theres no topsiol to deal with

[wh500special 2,252]

I hadn't heard of PolyPavement until you posted here. I did a little poking around looking for technical explanations of what it is and what it does. I didn't find much regarding composition (and the manufacturer doesn't have an online MSDS) but it looks like the material is a mixture of acrylic polymers.

That means, essentially, that it's like Latex paint in the way it cures.

I'm no expert on acrylic chemistry or latex paints, but I suspect the reason it hasn't bound up the soil is that excess moisture (dew, rain, etc.) is inhibiting the cure. If after a week it still hasn't firmed up, I doubt you'll ever get to their claimed results without a reapplication. This, of course, seems intuitive in hindsight so sorry for the lack of better explanation...

Although they suggest it is optional on their website, I wonder if compaction is required for two reasons: 1. It compacts things bringing particles closer together so they can adhere. 2. It prevents further moisture intrusion during the cure process.

I found some not-so-nice reviews of the product on the net. One of the more interesting was on "tractorbynet". But it really sounds like sucess is highly dependent on soil composition.

I'll bet it will work, but it may have a narrow set of boundary conditions on when it can be used.

I'll be watching this since it seems pretty interesting.

Good luck!

Steve

[Jack of All Gardens 0]

Don't buy Polypavement.  The product is very difficult to use and even worse, the customer service is horrible beyond belief!  Ron, the owner, is so rude and condescending, he doesn't listen to concerns and has even given incorrect advice.  He assured me that a method of application would work for what I wanted and then when it didn't work refused to accept that he'd directly given me that advice.  He refused to refund any of my money.  He essentially called me a liar.  I spent $1k on this product and it was a complete and total waste!!  IF the product is mixed with soil and then compacted, it has potential, but surface applied to compacted soil will do nothing but flake off.  Here's what I found out for those wanting to solidify their soil (I haven't tried yet, though - will update when I do) - try mixing 1 gallon Elmer's glue with 5 gallons of water and 2 cups of white vinegar.  A website for BMX enthusiasts recommended using this instead of Polypavement and it got rave reviews.  For a minor fraction of the cost of this product, it's worth a try.  Whatever you do, though - DON'T BUY POLYPAVEMENT!!  There are a few other soil stabalizer companies out there that might deserve your business, if you don't want to try making your own.  But Ron is rude and nasty and when problems arise he'll just blame you.  Don't give him your business. 

[Garden Gnomie 0]

Interesting that the negative review posted by Jack of All Gardens was the exact same, verbatim, review posted on another site by another customer ('Gardenmom'). So questions: is the dissatisfied customer the same person, trying to get a negative word out in as many forums as possible bc he/she is really unhappy, is it a competitor trying to fool people with a "sincere" negative review-- or what? I have no pony in this show, just trying myself to find legitimate reviews of this product since I'm considering it for a driveway... Emphasis on 'legitimate'.

[bc.gold 3,406]

About 8 years ago was using waste canola oil, heated to 100 degrees Celsius. The hot oil was circulated through a jacketed glass reactor.

 

This was all taking place outside of the hop when I had s small oil spill, the hot oil soaked into the gravel then a short time later the oil cured giving an asphalt like finish that is very durable.

 

Our driveway is very steep water coming off the highway during a torrential rain storm washes trenches that have to be repaired, so one hot summer afternoon decided to coat the driveway with canola. Now the while drive looks like its been paved, my neighbors visiting have all commented of the nice condition of the driveway.

 

Our driveway has only been treated once and still looks good without any noticeable wear, the bear had a go at it once leaving claw marks where he was scratching for a taste.

 

Paving the Prairies – a dual use for canola oil

 

VONDA, Sask. – As municipalities and cities face tight budgets and the demand for safer commutes increases, one Saskatchewan man believes he may have a solution to the problem.

From the deep fryer to the road, Prairie Energy Resources collects used canola oil from about 100 restaurants all over the province to treat dusty gravel roads.

 

The benefit is two-fold, according to company owner Mark Hryniuk.

“What it does is, it prevents the water from going into the road,” Hryniuk explains, prior to an application on a gravel road near the village of Vonda.“It repels it off the surface and literally within ten minutes after it rains the road is dry again.”

Hryniuk and his five business partners have been busy applying the deep fryer oil all summer. The company has found used oil to be more effective than new which streams off the road. Used oil is also cheaper.

 

The spray truck’s large tank keeps the oil at 70 degrees as the product penetrates deeper when it’s warm.

Once the canola oil bakes in the sun, it forms a hard asphalt-like surface – an outcome which piqued the interest of the Saskatchewan Ministry of Highways and Infrastructure.

 

At a fraction of the cost, Steve Shaheen with the province figured it was worth a trial run. Nine sections were part of the trial.

“One thing we found, especially on higher volume roads, there would be a crust that would develop on the road which over time would break down with traffic flows and then there would be a rough surface for motorists to travel on,” said Shaheen, with the ministry.

Shaheen says the province will continue using magnesium chloride and calcium chloride to control dust on gravel roads instead.

 

The City of Saskatoon is testing the oil as well. Prairie Energy Resources applied the product on Alberta Avenue on July 16. The surface appears hardened and dust free but Public Works Manager Pat Hyde says the city is still evaluating the results.

“We don’t know the benefits of it as treatment. We don’t know the risks or hazards, we don’t know if there are any byproducts of it that would be undesirable and of course we don’t know the durability of it,” said Hyde.

Several towns and villages are on board.

 

Vonda paid for a treatment earlier this summer, as well as Rosthern and the R.M. of Corman Park.

The town of Bruno has been a regular annual customer since Prairie Energy Resources began offering the option three years ago.

“At $50 a square meter for pavement, this is only a $1.25,” said Hryniuk, who touts the cost advantage of the product as the biggest selling feature.

 

Hryniuk recommends those in the industry consider it for back alleys and parking lots as well as gravel roads.

[bc.gold 3,406]

Canola oil after curing has held up well over the years.

 

This how our driveway looks, and it sheds water and is easy to blow snow off of.