The "Every Man GT"

[Guest]

After scanning vintage DIY tractor plans given here :

http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardproject...actorPlans.html

I had a 'moment' thinking what it might be like to engineer and fab a line of DIY short kits marketed for the average guy/gal wanting something a little less disposable than the $800 yardman's sold at Walmart and a lot less expensive than a diesel JD 455 (or whatever the current HD line is sold by John Deer). In my mind, these less expensive utility kits would be on the order of a no frills C-120 8 speed. You could pick your own power plant and mix or match attachment options. Has anyone else ever toyed with the idea? I think its a fascinating thought. I wonder what ever happened to the tooling and dies for the unidrive - if Toro has that stuff boxed up somewhere or whether they scraped it. What a shame if it's all gone. I think a third party resurrection of a heavy duty 'everyman' GT would really be cool, but I don't know if there's a market for it other than enthusiasts with a couple grand to blow. Ever wondered or toyed with the thought?

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,600]

This ought to spark some conversation... You are not a first to think of something like this. I am curious of the responses you will get. I wonder how the laws work with the unidrive pattent??

[puddlejumper 67]

I personally like your idea. Which is a strike against it righ there . I think history speaks for itself on this if it was what people would buy the c120 or other real heavy duty gts would still be around. Its a sign of the times postage stamp lots and convenience food. I had a large garden for a few years and sold produce at a local farmers market for a few years and was really shocked at the people that didnt recognize food if it didnt have microwave instruction. I live in a fairly rural area and I cant imagine what its like in more urban areas. I know a woman that wouldnt eat fresh brown eggs because they havent been sterilized.(Thats why store bought eggs are white dont you know )

[Redbirdman 7]

Has anyone else ever toyed with the idea? I think its a fascinating thought

Ohhhh yeahhh! You bring back old thoughts and schemes! I grew up in the Cecil Pond era of "Walk Aways' and Popular Mechanics tractor plans! I attended an "Agricultural Hi School"....ya know FFA and all that? And most of the classes revolved around farm or agri-business.

My senior year project was a design I called: a "MAN DOZER"

It was the era of Bantam garden tractors, RJ58's, (it was 1959) Agricat mini dozers and walk behind rototillers. But nothing addressed actual bull dozer grading on a teeny tiny scale like you would need to grade out a patio or sidewalk. The agricat was the smallest but still clumsy and the garden tractors had no real weight.

My project encompassed a walk behind style tractor with tracks with cleats instead of wheels for traction, but when grading; the operator stood on a small platform to add weight and would steer with axle clutches. Thus: The MAN dozer!

I planned on a Wisconsin engine, a Jacobsen master clutch, an ME tiller chain drive reversing transmission, two angle iron track guides, steering clutches from some early Ransomes greens mower, tracks made from some JD corn binder with home made cleats and a diamond plate foot pad to stand on when grading. The operator would walk behind the machine holding short handlebars until ready to grade or dig. Then he would push the handlebars forward and he would then step onto the foot pad (for weight) and steer by squeezing the R or L clutches. The blade went up or down with a regular hand bar but fine grading was done by shifting his weight forward or backward on the platform.

Would it have worked? WTFK's

But for years I had the hand drawn blue prints and I still have (someplace) the medal of a tomatoe over a tractor that was supposed to symbolize something to do with a 'farm invention'....................

I know, laugh your ass off at me...........BWTF! Go in a LOWES rental center today and ask about the walk behind dozer/loader................it ain't mine but the same dam idea!

ED

Ha....I can't help but think if I actually followed up on that idea instead of chasing all them purdy chippy cheerleaders to no avail and drinking my arse into a stupor you all would have a website about restoring the man-dozer today and I would be a famous old drunk.............instead of just a regular one .

[Guest]

I think an interesting argument to be made (and its just an opinion - possibly wrong) is that the brand didn't get promoted for what it was to the right cross section - perhaps due a weak strategy or an overboom in one direction by the throw-away market. The niche might exist anyhow for solid machines. Sometimes the invisible hand misses a spot where the possibility exists for it to be found again. I don't know how many of you are interested in RC flying but this is kind of an issue that has evolved recently in that world with senior pattern flying where a 'dead' class has emerged in the market again. Think of the wide gap between throw away mowers and the $8000 class and up tractors. Additionally, I never even knew of the WH mark before I moved East. Guy's there's a LOT of Ag in the west to tap. I grew up on a dairy and spud farm in Idaho and those people CONSUME heavy duty everything like its candy. Their lives depend on it and they have no patience for crap. So I do have faith that people will buy tough stuff at a fair price now that they've had a taste of 'junk' and don't want to shell out for over the top caviar.

By trade, I'm an okay CAD guy. I could draw this stuff and validate it for durability using FEA. (I'm actually a structural analyst) This could come alive. A paper tractor for now, and if there's interest - who knows?

Ed, you must live near Queen Creek or Apache Junction? Small world, I just migrated from that area. I used to work for Orbital in Chandler and did that 30 mi drive towards Phoenix every morning from no man's land on Rigg's. How'd you get into WheelHorses out clear out there? I never knew they existed until I moved to North Carolina.

[Operator 7]

Would the tractor be over horsepowered? Have cup holders? 4 wheel steer? How about so much electrical you'd need a BS in electrical engineering to just find the fuse panel? Get my drift here? Too much glitz on the "lawn cruisers" of today. I really like my 520's but they have their fair share of elecrical problems. Cubs and JDs where they enclose the sides so bad they can't handle the heat. I like my D but he ain't a lawn friendly mower.

Something like a C-160 with reduction steer, independent hyd. front to back plus aux ones.

Great topic!

Randy

[Guest]

Something like a C-160 with reduction steer, independent hyd. front to back plus aux ones.

Exactly... this is the concept I thought to build on. Simple and efficient - that's the motto here and I think that's what the C series embodied. This is the tractor 'that time forgot' so to speak. An independent hydraulic system is a must but I'd like to kit it as a universal add on. I'd like a pedal hydro as well, if thats not too flamboyant? :banghead:

[Operator 7]

Exactly!! Very easy to add hyd. "kit" 1 spool to 3 spool just sandwich them.

Foot control very easy from the factory,

I do like the D style pto set-up.

A three point add-on option.

flamboyant? Is that French for the opposite of "KISS"

Randy

[can whlvr 994]

i think that it is a great idea,but something to remember is that alot of wheelhorse guys allreadt own the best gt around and might not want to spend thousands on a machine that thay can still get (used for considerably less),and the walk behind machines are allready in use,toro has one that i rented years ago to dig out a basement,it works pretty good but its slow and looks to be expensive,i wonder how much this gt would cost,with a decent engine,similar uni drive,full frame,i dont see it being less than 3000-4000 grand.just one more thought,my neighbors on both sides of me both have lawn tractors,one is a sears,one a canadiana,both are nearing 20 years old and still cutting grass just fine,thats all they do but thats all they need so im not syre if a market exists but i would like to see it come true

[Guest]

Why not CAD this thing up anyway (down to the nuts and bolts) and generate a BOM? I did this all the time as an engineer for an aftermarket supplier of Jeep V8 adapter kits. I think the real thrill is in fleshing out the concept - a paper tractor. You really have to do that first until you can speculate on the merit of the animal you've created. What ever happens after that - I'm not going to let it bother me, but a mock up is cool to consider. If anyone has gotten this far, it would be cool to post an idea or two of what they had in mind.

[MaineDad 87]

This ought to spark some conversation... You are not a first to think of something like this. I am curious of the responses you will get. I wonder how the laws work with the unidrive pattent??

I'd be interested in finding out who has the uni drive patent. I did a google patent search and could not find anything close but this;

http://www.google.com/patents?id=W0tuAAAAE...epage&q&f=false

I have always thought about this too. There is a resurgence in gardening with the economic worries, so this may be more feasible now than in the past.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,690]

Wouldn't it be great to build one - but let's play devil's advocate here for a moment.

The original poster mentioned how expensive a JD 455 is, so let's break down the costs of building one.

Materials

Engine

transmission

tires

wheels

wiring

connectors

belts

hardware

manufacturing costs

overhead

etc.

Now, let's look at much it costs Deere to build a 455 (btw, nowaday's it's a X700 series).

Engine - $2000 (let's be conservative-probably more since it's a diesel)

Transmission - $1500

Deere's manufacturing costs - $90 per hour times X number of man hours (let's say 40{electrical people, welders, assemblers, etc)=$3600

Design-we leave this cost off since its nonrecurring

Materials-$1500 (paint, wire, connectors, steel, plastic, tires, wheels, belts, etc)

We now are at $8600 - a new 455 was just over $10,000 in 2003 - a profit for Deere of $1400, and that's not counting what the dealer cost from JD is.

So, it may seem that the higher quality machines from any brand is high, but look at what it's costing the company. The good thing that will bring the price per unit down for companies is the volume buying they do from their vendors and suppliers. So an engine may not cost $2000 since they bought so many of them, but if you, as an one-time builder, will pay full cost. Of course, you can throw out your labor costs, but how much time will you spend on this project. Also you can easily spend a small fortune in materials, engine, transmission, tires, wheels, perishable items, etc.

[Guest]

We now are at $8600 - a new 455 was just over $10,000 in 2003 - a profit for Deere of $1400, and that's not counting what the dealer cost from JD is.

Fair enough, but, remember, that's the F-16 tractor to be avoided, and I'm sure development costs dwarfed the unit cost in any case. I mowed commercial lawns with a 455 for several years. It's not a C-120, which from a technical standpoint is the real target here. The cool factor, really, is trying to get the most out of the simplest architecture possible. When that target concept converges on something simple enough for one person to flesh out, then that's the tractor I want to see. No one in their right mind could hope to pull a 455 clone out of their back pocket by themselves, that would be like a caveman trying to get to the moon. Regardless, the merit in doing this isn't so much feasibility of production or making $$ (inspite of arguments for or against that), it's foremost to see if enough creativity could be harnessed to develop or resurrect a concept that I think doesn't exist anymore - and show case that. That's really it. So....how about that 13hp greyhound motor from Harbor Freight ($350).

[Don1977 605]

Even if you worked every thing out. The safety equipment and testing required by our government would kill the project.

[Operator 7]

Some guys seem to be raining on the parade here

Build it in Canada [eh!] then import the parts over here and assemble them. No tarif cost at least.

Randy

It is still fun to dream :thumbs:

[Duff 206]

Unfortunately, Don may be partly right, and even if we could somehow get through the safety testing, the project would probably attract some very hungry....I'll use the kind term since this a family-friendly site...."personal injury lawyers".

Go back up to the top of this thread and click on the link that Greg (skinner) posted, then look at the Google adds at the right of the page. The first one is for a tractor rollover lawyer. Now what freakin' brainiac allowed that person to put an ad on the same page with creative plans for building your own piece of equipment. It's a sad sign of our times, ladies and gentlemen...very sad, indeed.

But I agree with Randy - no problem with dreaming, and heck, with the collective wisdom and talent around this place (including some lurking tractor-friendly lawyers, I would almost bet!) perhaps it could be made into reality!

Duff :thumbs:

[Redbirdman 7]

SKINNER!

Ed, you must live near Queen Creek or Apache Junction? Small world, I just migrated from that area. I used to work for Orbital in Chandler and did that 30 mi drive towards Phoenix every morning from no man's land on Rigg's. How'd you get into WheelHorses out clear out there? I never knew they existed until I moved to North Carolina.

...................sorry, temporary post hijack ..........................

Damn..........Queen Creek, (went to AJ last week to the HarborFreight) and I live right across from the east end of RIGGS under the San Tans...across from the big John Deere tractor shop (which has no walls),,

The 's had a 'special place' in my trailer and I dragged them 2442 miles from New Jersey..............where (ironically) someone else (of a wheel horse nature) lived right near where I came from and mentioned it just this morning!

Talk about a really small world I'm glad I'm not a fugitive on the 'lamb'!

........................... post hi-jack over........

ED

[Guest]

Man, I thought people would be chiming here in with all kinds of ideas or posting drawings and stuff. I'll admit, I'm not very creative. When I go out and stare at my 16 automatic, I can't think of a whole lot I would change other than add beef here and there. Some people on the other hand are mechanical poets and it's not always easy to get them to show off a bit. Put it this way, if anyone has a slick idea, I'd love to CAD it up or make prints (or even crash it with LS-DYNA) - because I like that stuff, and I can weld about as good as I can fly

Hey Ed,

I love that area. The cotton fields, Pegasus parkway, the people with the runway's in their backyards, palm trees, orange trees. REAL southwest food.

As for me, I lived East of the San Tan's, where if you don't come home before dark some one is liable to be looting a vacant home - yours.

Try not to get sun burned. I gotta go scrape ice off my windshield.

[Don1977 605]

Didn't mean to rain on your Parade. I can think a few to change on the rear axle go with a metric standard size OD bearings which are a little larger then the 2.50". Build the frame out of heavier metal with optional longer frame for newer engines. Allow more room under the hood. Heavier front spindles optional. I am sure there are other things that could be improved.