How bad is a smoking 12HP (K301)

[HankB 16]

If you're considering a tractor to purchase, how much weight would you put on smoke? Is this likely to be resolved by simply re-ringing the engine? At what point is it necessary to take it to a machine shop and have the next size piston fitted?

Or is this just a Bad Sign and I should either walk away or discount heavily?

Any further testing? Would a compression test on either hot or cold engine tell?

What's the possibility that loose valve guides could result in smoke?

thanks,

hank

Edit: Seller says "It smokes pretty good."

[rueger-99 0]

Figure Worst Case Scenario....Then discount from there. :thumbs:

[pfrederi 17,197]

You might get lucky and just have to put in new rings. but it may be the bore is worn or scratched. Machine shop work is not cheap. Then it is a piston and rings and who knows about the crankshaft. If the engine has that many hours it probably has some wear. Worn (more common than loose) valve guides are also a good source for smoke.

I agree about serious discounting before I would make an offer. Then again I am not very lucky at cards or the race track. You may be lucky and new rings will be all you need....

As Dirty Harry said:

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

[HankB 16]

Figure Worst Case Scenario....Then discount from there.

OK, that would be oversize piston and nmachine shop work.

So I have:

piston and rings - $40 and up

gasket set - $25 and up

Machine shop work? What's typical? Is it typical to take the cleaned up cylinder to the shop or will they want to fit the piston too?

thanks,

hank

[qd-16 14]

That's the beauty of a kohler, they can be rebuilt and run for many years to come.

A friend of mine had a 14 kohler completely rebuilt a few years ago at a machine shop and his bill was around $500 bucks.

[rmaynard 14,952]

I've got a machine shop in my area that will bore the cylinder and re-seat the valves for $110.00. Turn crank $75.00

Bob

[HankB 16]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Now I have some basis to negotiate price.

best,

hank

[rickv1957 70]

I've got a machine shop in my area that will bore the cylinder and re-seat the valves for $110.00. Turn crank $75.00

Bob

Machine shops are a little cheaper in my area,Bore-60.00,crank-55.00,Rick

[HankB 16]

OK, I picked up the tractor last night. I haven't had much chance to work with it, but here's what I know.

It starts pretty well. Considering I need to hold the choke by hand.

Smoking is in an odd pattern. It does not produce the same amount of smoke on every power stroke. At a medium throttle, most power strokes produce a little smoke. Every several seconds, it produces a heavier puff. What does that tell me? It's almost as if the oil is accumulating somewhere and then getting into a cylinder at once. Or maybe every once in a while extra oil gets splashed on the cylinder wall and pumped into the combustion chamber. Maybe I need to check the breather to see if it's pumping oil into the intake.

There seems to be a fair amount of blow-by if I pull the dipstick out, though I don't know what's normal. I must remember that every time the piston goes down, it pumps that volume into the crankcase. maybe I'm just feeling that.

-hank

[stevasaurus 22,275]

Hank...looks like you are going to tear apart a Kohler. If you kinda know what you are doing, I would welcome the opportunity. If you do not know what you are doing, I would still look forward to the opportunity to dig in and learn. Plenty of shops here in Elgin if you want to shop around. Yes it could just be valve guides, breather, rings. Parts should not be a problem. Sorry Hank...my cup is always half full when it comes to things like this.

Do a compression test, take off the head and see what it looks like. So far...no money. Go from there :thumbs:

[HankB 16]

If you kinda know what you are doing, I would welcome the opportunity...

Do a compression test, take off the head and see what it looks like. So far...no money. Go from there

I know enough to be dangerous. I used to do unit repair in a VW/Porsche/Audi shop (engine and transmission) so I've had a fair bit of training and some experience. Trouble is, my shop at home is not nearly as well equipped.

But I'll start with basics on this one first. Seems like I should replace air filter, plug, points (maybe no points with electronic ignition?) and change oil. Hooking up the choke cable would be a good idea too. If the choke is flapping shut, it could be causing problems, though I would expect black smoke from that.

Compression test and combustion chamber inspection would be a real good start.

But that will have to wait a while. I've got an A-80-E torn apart and I've started painting that one. I need to get that wrapped up first before I tear another one apart.

thanks,

hank

[HankB 16]

:thumbs:

I just noticed that parts of the engine sheet metal are missing. The part that goes over the head is gone as well as the piece that wraps around the side of the cylinder that faces the rear of the tractor.

So now I need to be concerned about the effects of poor cooling (unless the K301 is over-engineered in that regard.)

-hank

[dustycarter 3]

Hank I messaged you about some rings. Instead of $40 I will give them to you for $25. Brand new with a little bit of grease on the box :thumbs:

[wheel horse man 56]

When you see gas in the oil its time to rebuild the old girl aint nothing run like a kohler hope you get her going Taylor

[WH nut 553]

Go on ebay and buy KIT FOR UNDER 100 BUCK, MIC IT OUT AND SEE WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO NEED

[HankB 16]

Hank I messaged you about some rings. Instead of $40 I will give them to you for $25. Brand new with a little bit of grease on the box

Thanks for the offer, but first things first. I need to get some work on that A-80-E done first. Next I need to spend some time diagnosing what's wrong with this one. If I need to get it bored and replace the piston, rings will come with it. And In any case, I need to get the missing tin replaced so I can run it long enough to warm up and see what's going on.

thanks,

hank

[rickv1957 70]

Motor tins are pretty easy to find here on RS,or ebay,Rick

[wheel horse man 56]

I have all the tins that fit on a K301 if you need them but for a price