hard starting k161

[JUSS10 250]

first i want to say thanks to all who have been helping me with this tractor so far, wouldn't be near as far as i am if it wasnt for this site.

ok so the tractor has always been a hard starter since i got it a few days ago. previous owner said pull it twice with the kill switch on then finally again with it off and it should start. well i have since rebuilt the pull start and put that back on and i removed the kill switch as it was really rigged and didn't like the way he had it.

yesterday i was working on the governor and thought i would fire it up and see if its working right. well after probably 7 or 8 pulls she finally fired. once its idling it runs fine. at higher RPMs it starts to miss a little.

i reset the point gap to .020 and cleaned the points with a little sandpaper. also cleaned the carb and put in a new plug. still no luck at starting better.

any idea what it could be? the previous owner said he replaced the points and condenser but should i just do it myself not knowing how long ago that was?

also there is a bit of play on the throttle shaft in the carb, could air be leaking it causing a problem?

and finally, it pulls hard, REALLY hard. the snap back is really bad and last night i was just going at it trying to start it and on one pull I'm pretty sure i popped my shoulder out or over extended something. i heard a noise come from my shoulder and it hurt REAL bad. this morning my should is really stiff and sore.

i hear people saying these kohlers are easy starters so i feel like there must be something wrong here.

[VinsRJ 721]

Maybe a ARC (automatic compression release) issue? Just throwing this out to others to chime in for ya..... Never heard of ARC failures.

[Duff 206]

also there is a bit of play on the throttle shaft in the carb, could air be leaking it causing a problem?

Very well could be contributing to the running issue. Quick way to check (if you can start it without dislocating your shoulder again)

- at higher RPM's, does the tractor run a little smoother with the choke partly closed?

Duff :D

[JUSS10 250]

I'll give the choke thing a try today.

yeah not sure what happened with the shoulder, maybe i over extended something, but it is nasty sore today.

[linen beige 14]

Slop in the throttle shaft aint helping matters much, but I'd toss those points. Cleaning them with sandpaper is not a good idea. This is a sure fire way to round off the contact faces so they don't close flat. They will also tend to not close along the same center line every time, which in effect changes the gap. Changing the gap changes the engine timing. If you have no choice but to clean a set of points then a good old points file is the best way. A piece of heavy card stock is a decent alternative if you can't find a points file.

As for it being hard to pull, ??? Is the resistance steady through the whole rotation of the crank or does it go from relatively easy to very hard as compression builds? Does the engine "kick back" if it fires but doesn't quiet start up? If it's kicking back then the timing may be advanced too much, causing it to fire too soon. Too much point gap will do that. If the points are rounded off then the effective gap is actually wider than what you will measure with a feeler gauge. If you have a timing light check the timing with the light. Also make sure the points are closing flat, square, and on center. You can bend the contact arm(s) to adjust this.

This MAY be related to your problem with the drive belt not releasing completely. IE. you may be pulling the transmission as well as the engine. This is a carburetor fed engine. It relies on vacuum through the carb body to pull fuel into the combustion chamber. If you can't spin it fast enough it doesn't build enough vacuum to pull enough fuel into it to start.

[JUSS10 250]

it does seem to start better when the clutch is in. its just hard to stand on the clutch and start it at the same time. sometimes it pulls easier than others and yes it does kick back. sounds like i should start with new points. should i get a new condenser while i'm at it? where exactly is the condenser located on these motors?

[JimD 3,345]

The condenser is located on the engine near the coil, and has a wire that goes to the coil, normally on the front of the engine looking through the hood. And yes I'd replace it too.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,128]

where exactly is the condenser located on these motors?

Unless someone made drastic changes, the condenser is under the flywheel - next to the coil.

Although 1964/65 was when Kohler was experimenting with the automatic compression release, (ACR) your engine should have a centrifugal spark advance on the points lobe. (on the camshaft) If it remains in the advanced position after the engine is shut off, it will kick back when the next attempt is made to start it. Most of the parts to repair the spark advancer are NLA, so the best way to cure the problem is to install a newer camshaft with the ACR.

For now, try closing the point gap a little and see if it helps. :D