nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #1 Posted March 3, 2008 The carburator has been dipped, and put back together. Went to my local Toro dealer to pick up a gasket, and the only one which they had seemed to be an exhaust type. Anyway, the owner gave me a piece of gasket material. Got out my trusty X-acto knives and cut the gasket, then picked up a couple of new bolts to mount the carb up. Jumped it from the 414-8 and nothing I am not convinced that the fuel pump is pumping, but I swear that when I checked for spark the last time it had it. Well I checked again and nothing. The points are fine and I even removed the ignition ground wire in case it was shorted somewhere. Anyway didn't get it running. Next step will be to "borrow" the coil from the C-120 and convert this to a battery ignition just to hear it run. If it runs okay, I'll figure out what to do next, but I do know I am not going to mess with magneto ignition at all. I have a spare key switch from a 314-8 which will work with battery ignition, then I would just need to pick up a coil. All in all a dissapointing day, and I already used up my lunch hour working on it, so no more for today :sigh: :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,315 #2 Posted March 3, 2008 Sorry to hear this, Karl. But, just treat it as a minor setback. It does sound like you have a good plan B in place. Good luck and keep the updates coming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #3 Posted March 3, 2008 well now it's got me mad..... I'll git it... I'll git it good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rollerman 290 #4 Posted March 3, 2008 Karl on your next lunch hour get your test light or digi volt meter out & check the ignition switch & related wireing. I know it gets frustrateing when you think you shoul be moveing ahead & intead jump back. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #5 Posted March 3, 2008 With the Magneto ignition there is a wire from the key to the points. The engine shuts off when that wire gets grounded by the switch. I removed that wire to eliminate the switch from the equation. I took a quick break and removed the coil and condenser form the C-120 and hooked it up to the Electro. It still wasn't getting spark which can only mean one thing. The points are bad. I took some emery cloth and ran it through the points, then used some contact cleaner. I put the meter to it and they are now working. Hooked up my battery ignition and............. putt putt...... blah..... It sounded good while it ran for that 3 seconds (on carburator cleaner). I put everything back to magneto and no spark. Here's the updated plan. I'm going to go and get a set of points and consenser tomorrow and ask if they have an old coil they can spare. Then I'll recheck the magneto spark and if not set up the battery ignition on a more permenant basis to get the fuel issue worked out. This thing is gonna run! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #6 Posted March 3, 2008 I put everything back onto the C-120, and tried the Electro again, and this time I got intermittent spark. I suspect that the points are really bad and the lower primary voltage on the magneto ignition magnafies the issue with the points. I'll still stick with the plan to convert to battery. What do you think of the points theory? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj4kicks 151 #7 Posted March 3, 2008 I think you're right on track. Had that happen to me already. A new set of points should get you sparkin' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #8 Posted March 3, 2008 The armature might need cleaned (for the mag coil), and it wouldn't hurt to throw a new condenser on it. (it has to be one for magneto ignition though) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #9 Posted March 3, 2008 Terry do you happen to know the PN's for the points and condenser? I can't find a parts break down for this engine :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,406 #10 Posted March 3, 2008 Could I also throw in check the points wire for sharp bends/breaks. Your intermittent spark could be a faulty wire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #11 Posted March 3, 2008 Ifn' the points don't do it, that and what TT mentioned would be a good logical next step. There is some definite rodent evidence which would certainly lead to chewed wires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #12 Posted March 3, 2008 Terry do you happen to know the PN's for the points and condenser? I can't find a parts break down for this engine Kohler has been using the same points for all the ignition systems now. (P/N is 47 150 03-S ... or ... Stens # is 450-403) What style condenser is on the Electro now -- is it one with a wire pigtail, or or does it have the screw terminal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
refracman 166 #13 Posted March 3, 2008 Karl, if it has the Magneto ignition on it it WILL not have points or a condenser in the ignition system. Just the alternator ( which supplies power to the ign. system) , the flywheel pickup, coil and ignition switch, both the coil and ign. switch are special to this system. If it does have points and the same coil as your 120 it has been converted to a points ignition and treat it as such. With all this being said if it does still have the magneto system and if the pickup on the flywheel gets wet it will either intermitly short out the system our completly fry the pickup. Be careful this is the major reason for failure of this system. If needed i can get some pics of the system parts for you ie. pickup, alternator, coil and igniton switch edit: If this is the Flywheel type Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #14 Posted March 4, 2008 What style condenser is on the Electro now -- is it one with a wire pigtail, or or does it have the screw terminal? The condenser is mounted to the front of the engine and has a screw terminal on it which the points wire and ignition switch wire connect to. Karl, if it has the Magneto ignition on it it WILL not have points or a condenser in the ignition system. Just the alternator ( which supplies power to the ign. system) , the flywheel pickup, coil and ignition switch, both the coil and ign. switch are special to this system. Steve, this tractor does have the Magneto ignition as discussed in this post. The magneto ignition still utilizes points and condenser to complete the primary circuit and fire the coil. During my testing I temporarily converted it to battery ignition by disconnecting the lead off the points, then connecting a jumper wire from the points to the negative side of the coil (with condenser). Additionally I ran a jumper from the battery to the positive side of the coil voila instant battery ignition. At first it didn't spark then either which led me to the points. After refacing the points slightly I was able to get spark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
refracman 166 #15 Posted March 4, 2008 Karl Sorry i ass u med that this was the same style as the gt14 has. As i have only seen one elector 12 and it was a 69 and had the same as the gt14. notice edit in orinial reply Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #16 Posted March 4, 2008 The condenser is mounted to the front of the engine and has a screw terminal on it which the points wire and ignition switch wire connect to. The condenser P/N is 47 147 01-S ...or... Stens 055-141 then. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #17 Posted March 4, 2008 Perfect, thank you Terry! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #18 Posted March 4, 2008 Was going to get everything today, until the upstairs bathroom decided to leak, so the Electro gets set aside until I can replace the tiles and backing board in the shower (it's ugly behind them tiles!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #19 Posted March 7, 2008 Just got back from picking up my points and condenser and may also have recruited a new member who has 3 horses including a 418A! Terry the part numbers helped, thank you again! Next is to put them in and see if it helps! Stay tuned.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #20 Posted March 7, 2008 Well, the points worked, still haven't changed the condenser, but I have a nice constant blue spark. Jim (I hope I caught your name right) from Empire, if you read this, welcome and please join, it would be great to have you here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,088 #21 Posted March 7, 2008 Oh, I have a fuel delivery problem now which I haven't really looked into yet, once that gets resolved this is going to run! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,315 #22 Posted March 7, 2008 Progress - I like progress. It sounds like this thing will live after all. Good job, Karl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj4kicks 151 #23 Posted March 7, 2008 Go Karl Go !!! :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #24 Posted March 7, 2008 Sounds like you're making more progress than I did on the 210-5 so far today. I had to put 3 starters together to make one good one, and still only got a couple of "putts" out of it. I'm on break now (letting the "new" starter cool off) and suspect I'll have to drain the gas tank when I return to the shop. Apparently water is not very combustible. Good Luck, Karl ! YOU CAN DO IT ! ! ! ! ! :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,315 #25 Posted March 7, 2008 Sorry to hear of your starter problem on the 210, TT. But, I'm sure, that you can get her running. If I remember correctly, this little WH is going to your BIL, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites