312-8 4x4

[Stigian 1,234]

HHmmm What have i started with this 4x4 Wheel Horse idea

Id never of guessed when i started the brake drum thread that it would of created so much interest, so many 's up, so many suggestions on how to build it, and so many sleepless nights for Wes

Now i have the plan worked out in the ol grey matter i thought id post it any see what ya all think

Starting at the front an axle with diff would be a good idea.

A Westwood trans was measure and found to be way to wide but the diff and half shafts can be used

This is the first mock-up with bits put close-ish to where they should be but you get the idea.

If i make a cover that keeps all the mud/grass/stones/add object to taste, out of the diff, and bolt a pulley on i have a er.. chain/ pulley diff .

Add a bearing on the half shaft each side and it should work

Just in case you didnt heres the chain diff thats on my Kart project, its just missing the sprocket that can bolt on either side.

HHmm i might have to pinch it off the Kart if it will fit the WH

Anyway, a chain diff pic.

Now it would be a shame to have all that 4x4 pushing power and not be able to fit the dozerblade/snow plow on the WH due to the diff being in the way

But with the aid of a smoke, a large cup of coffee, and a couple of blocks of wood, the diff fitted snuggly about here.

Was that unequal length driveshafts i heard?

Moving slightly down the shaft towards the wheel its finding the right UJ's to use is causing me the most ing.

I need something that will fit on a 3/4" shaft, be strong in a twisting kinda way, and is

as short as poss to fit on the diff side of the axle

Whats next?? oh yes, steering hubs

The plan is to cut the bottom off a couple of spare kingpin 's, just below the steering arm and mount a heavy duty bearing that the stub axle will go through.

Im just about to order some 16x6.5x8 AG tires to go on Westwood back wheels that are going on the front of the WH.

Confused yet?

Sorry its not the best of photos, but it all helps

The plan is to fit an inset pulley (so the pulley is just over the end on the trans case)

to the axle or wheel hub (not sure yet) and run a drive belt forward to the front pulley diff

Thats the plan, what do you think guys :D

[Mith 2]

If you run from the axle of one side on the rear trans then surely when the wheel on the other side loses traction you lose drive to the front wheels too?

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,343]

Ian,

I'm not sure yet, but it looks like you getting it figured out. And I'm sure with some more coffee, a smoke here and there (now's not the time to address health habits ) and a lot more I'm sure you will come up with something. It looks like you're not afraid of a little trial and error, so I can't wait for this book to be completed. :thumbs:

[Greg B. 1]

Ian,

This may be a :imstupid: idea, but, don't make the tractor fit the plow, make the plow fit the tractor. Modify the frame so that it pivots off the front mount (similar to those green tractors ) and just extend a fulcrum back to the upsy/downsy This would gain you several inches for differential location.

Really looking forward to reading this book.

Greg B.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Whats next?? oh yes, steering hubs

The plan is to cut the bottom off a couple of spare kingpin 's, just below the steering arm and mount a heavy duty bearing that the stub axle will go through.

You have to place the pivot centerline of the universal joint in line with the spindle pivot centerline or it won't steer. (because it will bind severely)

I'm guessing you'll need to fabricate an entire new narrower front axle "beam" and new "open" spindles so the u-joint and axle can pass through the center -- just like on an older 4WD truck. If you attach all of these extra parts to the ends of the original axle, it will probably be about 6 inches wider on each side. (which wouldn't really matter with dual rear wheels )

Mith is correct on the one rear wheel drive idea too. Once the opposite wheel looses traction and begins to spin, your front wheel assist is useless. :P

[kj4kicks 151]

How about a Front Wheel Drive car type CV joint/hub setup. Compact, easy to find, etc.

Looks good so far !!

(and you guys think "I" have to much free time ????? ) :thumbs:

[Rollerman 290]

I agree with "JD" Terry that this is going to be the makeings of a great read.

Also agree with "TT" Terry..your going to have a lot of hardware out there on the ends of the front axle...I'm looking forward to see how you solve all of this.

Almost looks like you need a scaled down Unimog front axle with the hi clearance.

Greg has a point too....now that you have finished your A frame & plow..dedicate that area under the front of the tractor for the diff & make a front mounted A frame.

Another idea would be to start from scratch with a horse transmission inline of the drive train running a drive shaft off both ends to new driveaxles on each end & giveing the engine a 1/4 turn faceing the input of the tranns.

BUt then you would have to fabricate the whole tractor from scratch.

Ian I hope I can be half the fabricator you are eventually & less of a grey matter fabricator. :D

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

How 'bout something like this? :

[Greg B. 1]

Don't forget caster, camber and ackerman, while you are still in the phase of this project. Power steering might be worth some thought, as well....

Greg B.

[combatmp29r 27]

Hey Ian what about doubling up your input pulley on the existing rear diff and running a front drive off of it? You could just flip WTF engineerings design of the front axle side to side then.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Hey Ian what about doubling up your input pulley on the existing rear diff and running a front drive off of it? You could just flip WTF engineerings design of the front axle side to side then.

That won't work because of two things, Joel......

One is the input shaft is only long enough to support the single pulley and it would be tough to keep the pulley tight. (and it could snap the shaft off like the GT-14's with the tiller pulley sometimes do.)

The other is that you'd be driving the front differential at drive belt speed -- not through the reduction gearing (or reverse gear) in the transaxle.

[combatmp29r 27]

:thumbs: I definately overlooked the gearing thing. Hmmm back to the :thumbs:

[wesley 32]

OH dear oh dear here we go again, right lan been thinking for you , take a mini gearbox, cut it down so you just have the diff etc and the drive shafts, turn up a few bits and on go the horse wheels, it can be driven ok by belt, or use a small rotavator front end , again belts can be used, am not going to log in now for a couple of days man l need sleep, have you got room for a camp bed , better if l come and stay a while, this building is making me buzz.

wes

[Stigian 1,234]

Evening all

Wow so many reply's

This might help explain things a bit better than i have done so far

Have a butchers while i catch up on this thread

[wesley 32]

lan looking at it like your last post, yep like it, plus all that can be made on your southbend or the big haytor 48 mowers have the same sort of drive on there rear roller drive , there a few of them about as scrap, am a thinking mate

wes

[Stigian 1,234]

If you run from the axle of one side on the rear trans then surely when the wheel on the other side loses traction you lose drive to the front wheels too?

Im hoping that the duels and some wheel weights will take care of any traction problems Jim. The front axle will still tilt as normal as well

It looks like you're not afraid of a little trial and error

Story of my life JD Terry

Trial and error is all part of my learning curve, i find out what works and what stands no chance of working

I'm guessing you'll need to fabricate an entire new narrower front axle "beam" and new "open" spindles so the u-joint and axle can pass through the center -- just like on an older 4WD truck. If you attach all of these extra parts to the ends of the original axle, it will probably be about 6 inches wider on each side. (which wouldn't really matter with dual rear wheels

I did think about building a new front axle, if i can modify the king pins instead it will save a lot of work. And get me some 4x4 seat time sooner

Another idea would be to start from scratch with a horse transmission inline of the drive train running a drive shaft off both ends to new driveaxles on each end & giveing the engine a 1/4 turn faceing the input of the tranns. whtractor/scratchhead.gif

BUt then you would have to fabricate the whole tractor from scratch

:D

[Jim_M 178]

Evening all

Wow so many reply's

This might help explain things a bit better than i have done so far

Have a butchers while i catch up on this thread

It all looks good, but I don't think you'll get by with a single u joint. I think you'll either need to use a double U joint like Chevy used on the big car driveshafts in the mid 70's or a CV joint.

I think a single u joint will bind and snap when you turn.

[TR_DIGGER 3]

:thumbs: Now there may be some drawings , maybe no board, but.... keep us updated, LOOKS good

[kpinnc 10,718]

I don't know what was funnier- WTF engineering, or Stig-o-matic!

Looking forward to watching this project progress though!

Kevin

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,343]

Ian,

Is this the preface or introduction page or Chapter 1, "Coffee, Smokes, and Head Scratching". Or maybe, "Now What Am I Going to do With That Old Axle?"

I think your first Book, "Coffee, Smokes, and Snow Plows" should be on Oprah's book list. :thumbs:

[combatmp29r 27]

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

I don't know what was funnier- WTF engineering, or Stig-o-matic!

:wtf:

I think we need to see if Ron Popeil wants involved in this too. :P

[Jim_M 178]

Joel,

I thought about that after I posted it. I've owned a lot of 4x4's that had a single U joint in the front end. Most of them had a pretty big turning radius though. They didn't turn nearly as tight as the newer ones with CV's in the front.

My wife had a Jeep grand cherokee that had a single joint at each steering knuckle and turned pretty short, but it also ate u joints like nothing I've ever seen.

The single u joints would probably work if you didn't turn it too sharp.

Jim

[Nick 13]

Now you boys is putting to much high powered thinkin into this. What you need to do is take the kids go cart engine with cintrifugal clutch and mount it up front off to the side. Now when you need 4x4 just fire that briggs up and there ya go. :imstupid:

Seriously Ian if you can work out the mechanical bits and thingys in this project the tractor will be a wicked machine.

Nick

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Now you boys is putting to much high powered thinkin into this. What you need to do is take the kids go cart engine with cintrifugal clutch and mount it up front off to the side. Now when you need 4x4 just fire that briggs up and there ya go.

Seriously Ian if you can work out the mechanical bits and thingys in this project the tractor will be a wicked machine.

Nick

Nick.......

That's not as crazy as you think!

The thought of running a belt from the PTO clutch down to the front axle has been discussed before. If you need a little help to get through a tough spot, have it "geared" to match a specific speed in the transaxle (like 2nd high), let the clutch out and kick the PTO in for front wheel assist! :thumbs: