Brake drum question

[Stigian 1,234]

Just a quick question guys (as im too lazy to head out in the rain to have a look )

Does the brake drum on the side of my Raider trans turn in the same direction as the wheels? both when your moving forward and back :thumbs:

[Mith 2]

think it goes the opposite way to wheels.

[Stigian 1,234]

Cheers Jim

I was just trying to work out if power can be taken from the trans in any way?

Tri Terry, your the man with the plans or is it diagrams

Have you got a diagram for an 8 speed trans that shows me how it works?

[Mith 2]

Ian, you can D/L one from internetty.

Go to the link, put in 11-12K802 to the model number, and select 'riding mowers/tractors...' from the dropdown list. from there you can download the transmission manual, that covers all of the wh transmissions.

https://lookup3.toro.com/request/request.cfm?lang=uk_en

What you got in mind?

Problem with driving from the trans is every time you press the clutch the power goes. I had a Kubota with that setup for the PTO, very annoying it was too, and hard on the clutch having to spin up a topper every time you change gear.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

(The brake shaft is highlighted in yellow)

I'm almost positive that the brake drum on a 3 speed turns opposite of the wheel direction, and 6/8 speeds turn the same way.

[combatmp29r 27]

Hawkeye comes through again :thumbs:

[Stigian 1,234]

Cheers Jim for the link

And cheers Terry for posting the diagram.

Ive been a bit careful not mentioning quite what i have in mind, i wanted to work out if it could be done first , but im having problem working out which cog in the trans turns which way

Im trying to work out a way of giving an 'orse four wheel drive

Which way does cog number 72 rotate? clockwise or the other way?

[Mith 2]

Terry, what you say is correct (changed wheels on tractors today and checked while I was at it).

I thought Ian's Raider was a 3 speed, wasnt there a thread about it being unusual that its not a 6 speed?

[Nick 13]

Ian,

For a while I had the idea to attach a 2nd transmission behind the main and then use chain between brake drums to power it. The idea was to build something like a road grader with mid mounted blade. Never got far enough to look into if the brake shafts could handle the job.

Bit off topic but I later saw this tractor at the Constantine Michigan show. He used chain between tha axles something like a skid steer loader would have.

Nick in Ohio

Clickable thumbnails

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Terry, what you say is correct (changed wheels on tractors today and checked while I was at it).

I thought Ian's Raider was a 3 speed, wasnt there a thread about it being unusual that its not a 6 speed?

It's only unusual here in the USA, because "our" Raiders are all 6 speeds.

I don't know about the non-US models.

It's NOT unusual to find out that the original transaxle may have been destroyed beyond repair and a 3 speed unit was installed as a replacement though.

Sometime we need to see some pictures of Wes's tractor. :D

[combatmp29r 27]

Well looks like NIck finds pics faster than I do. I was going to say the same thing about chains Ian. You could run roller chains like that to the front axle and then put u-joints outboard of them with some type of steering knuckles.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Which way does cog number 72 rotate? clockwise or the other way?

#72 is part of the reduction gearing/pinion shaft and rotates opposite of the ring gear/axles.

[Rollerman 290]

One of the members here created this setup useing a "Noma" brand rear trans axle.

They made a 4 wheel steer or crab steer rideing lawn mower.

Bob took the rear end out of one & mounted it to the front oh his newer vertical shaft Toro/Wheel Horse.

[combatmp29r 27]

4x4 VERT Now thats what I'm talkin about I'll do some digging i know I've got a couple pics of a 4x4 horizontal WH from a show somewhere.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Ian,

For a while I had the idea to attach a 2nd transmission behind the main and then use chain between brake drums to power it. The idea was to build something like a road grader with mid mounted blade. Never got far enough to look into if the brake shafts could handle the job.

Bit off topic but I later saw this tractor at the Constantine Michigan show. He used chain between tha axles something like a skid steer loader would have.

That's very similar to the first semi-trucks with dual-drive tandem axles. (Sterling, maybe?) You wouldn't actually need a second transaxle back there to do that, just a "tag" axle to mount the driven hubs.

If the input shaft wasn't so blasted short on these transaxles, you could put a double pulley on the front and drive the second one with a v belt and a spring loaded idler/tensioner.

You would just have to weld the shifters together so they both moved the same.

[combatmp29r 27]

Terry you could almost put an electric clutch on the second one and use it when you needed more traction.

[Stigian 1,234]

HHmmm this idea may be a bit harder than i thought, i like a challenge though

I think the brake drum idea is out as (if ive got my ing at the diagram right) the brake drum doesnt run through the gears.

Cheers for posting the photo's Nick i had been thinking about using a wheel hub to take the drive from. Id have to step the drive in towards the center of the Wheel Horse a bit to get things lined up.

Id like to have a diff under the front axle if theres space, i have another westwood trans

that i could use but it might be a bit wide

I was thinking of belt drive to the front as a belt can cope with a certain amount of twisting when the front axle moves over rough ground.

The part in dreading the most is working out the gearing so the front wheels turn at the right speed

Time i improved my maths anyway :P

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

One "easy" (but expensive) solution would be to use two Wheel Horse transaxles, facing in opposite directions and connected in the center via a multi-directional swivel hinge arrangement. (able to twist AND pivot sideways - like an articulated off-road dump truck)

Drive each transmission with a hydraulic motor hooked to the input shaft and controlled by a single two-direction valve. The front transaxle motor would be plumbed to run opposite of the rear to make both transaxles turn the same direction.

The engine would only need to run a hydraulic pump for the drive system, steering, and hydraulic lift. (you HAVE to have hydraulic lift! )

By shifting both transaxles into the same gear, you would essentially have 3 "ranges" for power multiplication in either direction (low=1st, med=2nd, and high=3rd) and if you used 8 speed transmissions, you could pull anything you wanted to in "low-low"!

I won't dig into this any deeper, but you guys have to be seeing this creation in your head, right?

Four 12" AG tires with weights on all 4 corners..... kind of like a Steiner, but BETTER LOOKING, right?

I guess I better fire up the MS Paint program and get busy drawing this up! :D

[combatmp29r 27]

:thumbs: I see where your going Terry. I saw a articulated 4x4 D series on one of the Yahoo groups. Can't remember whos it was though. :thumbs:

[whlpny 201]

The D-series Articulated is mine, maybe Steve has a pic he can post- I'm not up to posting speed here yet. The Vertcal 264 x4 came after the articulated D. It was something I had in mind for a long time, but just never had the right tractor to apply it to until last summer. Thanks for putting that pic up Steve!

Bob in Mi

[combatmp29r 27]

Both are very nice toys Bob. Steve and I actually had a conversation about the 264 the other night off of here. I had no Idea you built the D also. I've got a couple pics of it I saved from over on yahoo I could post If you don't mind.

[Stigian 1,234]

Nice idea Terry

Be careful drawing a picture of it, it might inspire you to build it

If possible i want to make this 4x4 conversion a bolt on kit that can be swapped between

Wheel Horses.

A custom made front axle with driveshaft/steering hubs will be fun to knock up, im not quite sure on axle uj's yet, maybe from a car steering collom, er.. collum

er..

I need to get a few photo's tomorrow with some parts mocked in place to give you all an idea of what im rambling on about :thumbs:

[Nick 13]

Heres a picture from 2001 I think.

[combatmp29r 27]

Yep thats it Nice piece of engineering from what I've seen . Pretty tough looking toy. :thumbs:

[wesley 32]

Yes will take a few more piccys of my raider, but now have made contact with a person that used the tractor when it was first brought and yes it came as a 3 speed and then theres lans raider that is 8 speed , mybe they had a load of 3 speed boxes laying about when mine was made, still l dont mind , love my raider, dam lan you have me thinking now , if l could find another raider with a 3 speed box , as l have a spare box that l will do up as well , l could join two boxes together at the back so four wheel drive at the rear hmmmmmmmm .

wes