Repower

[C.M.C-175 0]

I currently have a 80' C-175 with a Kohler KT-17 Series I. It runs o.k., but uses oil and I can tell its down on power. Just recently I have come across a chance to get a "pretty much" new Briggs & Stratton Vanguard 18 hp for... well let's just say, I can't hardly pass this deal up. Anyway, my question is... is there any reason that I should shy away from this deal? I have read that the new Vanguard engines are hard to beat. Also, if I was looking at this right, I think that the Vanguard engine has a 1"x3" PTO shaft instead of a 1 1/8"x 3 25/32", which my Kohler has now. Does someone make an keyed bushing that makes up that difference in the diameter and length? What other options do I have, if any, in order to run my current PTO setup? Also, has anyone done one of these swaps from a Kohler to a Briggs engine? How did it go? Thank you in advance for any responses, I know I had a lot of questions for one posting. :thumbs:

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,037]

If your crank is not the same exact size you will NOT be able to use the PTO. IMO I would stick with the Kohlers.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Not a fan of Briggs, except for lawnmower racing.

HOWEVER, don't you love that word,

however, many Wheel Horses came with a 1" crank. The difference between the pto they used, and the one you have is.... you guessed it, a bushing.

Not sure about making up the length though, might be looking for trouble there.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

:thumbs: , Craig.

Let me present to you a 1980 C-85 with an 18hp Vanguard V twin:

This tractor is 100% test mule and is not supposed to be pretty - just functional.

The engine was installed using all WH parts and doesn't have a problem showing up both of my Onan 16hp twins when it comes to power. (and fuel consumption)

I used a mounting plate from a GT-1100 Work Horse but suspect that a plate from the GT-1600/1800 models would actually be a better piece due to a slightly lower height.

Because your C-175 automatic, you will have a tough time finding the correct 5 1/4" X 1" bore engine pulley, but they are out there. My tractor was a C-85 (8 speed), so the 1" bore pulley from the original K-181 Kohler was reused, along with the PTO inner bearing race and related hardware.

If you are skeptical about the length of the crankshaft providing enough support for the PTO, you can have a 1" OD X (give or take) 1" long bushing made to bolt to the end of the crankshaft - providing the crankshaft is drilled & tapped on your particular engine. The inner bearing race for a 1" crankshaft is thicker-walled than the 1 1/8" version and you really shouldn't have any problems - even without the bushing, but I can't guarantee it.

Depending on the style of oil filter adapter on the engine, you may need to change something there to provide clearance for a mower or snowthrower/blower drive belt, etc.

If all else fails, a remote oil filter kit is available to relocate the filter to anywhere you can mount it and still connect the two hoses.

Naturally, you will also have to deal with exhaust and wiring changes.

The Vanguard twin is a very good engine and is in use on many pieces of commercial/industrial equipment, as well as regular lawn care equipment. I see one every day that has just a little over 2900 hours on the meter and has had nothing but routine oil / filter changes and a pair of new coils since it was new nine years ago.

[C.M.C-175 0]

"TT"

WOW! Thanks for the info, that was great. Great tip on the mounting plate also. I think the issue with the PTO bushing I can handle. I have a couple of friends who are machinists, that I think I could have one made to fit. It helped to actually see that Vanguard in an actual tractor, to see how things fit. I have a couple more questions actually. Did your upper bracket that attaches your PTO pulley to the original Kohler engine case "bolt-up" to the new Vanguard, or did that too have to be modified? I have also read or heard that when you go to a newer replacement engine you also have to get a new ignition switch, is that true, and if so what does one need to make it work correctly? Thanks a million.

[Don1977 604]

I did it on a C-120 and used all the original parts. Had the drive pulley bored out sleeved and keyed. Made a sleeve from 1" to 1 1/8" for the clutch. Turned and threaded a extension for the crank shaft with an end to hold the thrust bearing. I had to raise the engine mount 7/8" to line up at the original position as the 12 HP Kohler. You will have to check that I don't know the height of the shaft on your engine.

I have a 16 HP Briggs & Stratton Vanguard V-twin.

Take my advice and place a 3/8" steel plate under the engine. I didn't at first and have been welding up a broken engine to keep it from leaking oil. I was mowing along a bank

around 3 feet high when I went off twisted the frame and broke one corner off the engine mount and cracked the other side. I got the broken side fixed still having trouble with the cracked side. If you can't raise the engine put the steel plate under the angle frame under the engine. I was changing the seal on the crank shaft in the last picture.

You can see the shaft extension in the last picture. The engine was put on in 1990.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Did your upper bracket that attaches your PTO pulley to the original Kohler engine case "bolt-up" to the new Vanguard, or did that too have to be modified? I have also read or heard that when you go to a newer replacement engine you also have to get a new ignition switch, is that true, and if so what does one need to make it work correctly? Thanks a million.

My Vanguard-powered C-85 actually has a mixture of parts on the PTO, but if I remember correctly, the majority of pieces came from the original 8 hp Kohler. I did have some issues with the fit of the engagement bail, but the upper bracket fit the Briggs engine without modification.

More than likely, your engine will require a 12VDC power source for the fuel cut-off solenoid during cranking and running and a grounded ignition circuit to shut off. You will need to install the appropriate ignition switch to provide these functions - one of which is used on MTD mowers with the Vanguard twins and is P/N 925-1396. (you might need to modify the mounting hole in the dash for this switch due to a slightly larger mounting stem)

The Toro 103991 switch might also work if the fuel solenoid is powered off of the "A" terminal on the switch. I never made it to the ignition switch swap stage yet and was using the original ignition power wire (originally on the coil of the Kohler) to power the fuel solenoid and simply grounded the ignition with a jumper wire when I wanted to shut the engine off. (disconnecting the power from the fuel solenoid will eventually shut the engine down but it can take up to 20 seconds or more and isn't very reliable if you need to kill the engine in a hurry.)

[pfrederi 17,143]

Does the Vangard engine have ball bearings for the crank or some other thrust bearing set up to take the end loading of the manual PTO????

The replacement KT-17 I put in my C175 came from a JD and didn't have anything for end thrust management. I switched to a electric PTO which you can get in a 1" shaft and isn't as picky about the length

[Don1977 604]

The Vanguards have ball bearing on both ends of the crank. I haven't had any trouble with the manual clutch.

[C.M.C-175 0]

Gentelmen,

Thank you so much for the information on this. This site always amazes me at the amount of knowledge available here. Thats interesting on the thrust bearing issue. I will have too look into that, Don1977, how exactly is that extention attached to the end of the crankshaft? It looks like there is a seperate piece that has been turned down to accomodate that bearing, is that right? I am unfamiliar with how the whole PTO is put together, but will have to take mine off an see exactly what is going on. I have a manual for my tractor and Kohler engine, but neither one really talk about it much. Also, Don1977, that is a nice clean setup, what kind of muffler is that. I like it, its simple and looks good!

[kpinnc 10,703]

Just another example for you:

I re-powered my 520-H over two years ago, and it works like a champ ever since. I've had NO problems whatsoever. My Vanguard is a 14hp, and it easily matches my 518-H is available power. I run a 48SD deck on the "514-H", and it cuts everything I put it into without bogging down. And, the Vanguard engines are extremely quiet, smooth runners. Makes everything else I have sound like a bushel of iron pipe fittings in a tumble dryer. Did I mention I really like this engine so far?

I placed the engine on a adapter plate made from 1 inch square tubing, and all the PTO brackets lined up just fine. Of course, the 5 and 1/4 engine pulley with 1 inch bore was a bit hard to find, but they are out there for sure. The pic below was made before I got the correct pulley. It now has a standard Wheel Horse manual PTO installed.

Good luck!

Kevin