Need help K341s that has been sitting for few years

[Charrie 22]

I bought a 1985 416-8 a few months back and now I an ready checkout the engine. The PO said that a few years ago he parked it for the winter and when spring came around, it wouldn't start. Said that he changed point, plug, coil, and did a little more work then gave up. Said that his Father in law bought it new in 1985 and was his baby. i think it is generally in decent shape but I question what a few years really is due so some of the rust on certain unpainted parts. Anyway that's basically what I know of its history.  The PO did say that it was running great when he parked it.

 

The day I bought it, I could turn the engine over by hand and felt some compression. Today I pulled the spark plug and put about a tablespoon of transmission fluid in the cylinder and then turned the engine over by hand a few times. No sticking places but almost felt like I could feel the pressure from the valve springs as I slowly rotated the flywheel. After about an hour I connected a battery and used the starter to turn the engine to check compression. My old gauge was reading around 40psi. I removed the gauge and added another tablespoon or two of transmission fluid hoping to get some around the valves. I re-checked the compression and this time it was around 35 psi. I have 2 gauges and one is defiantly bad so I am going to do the test again tomorrow with new o-rings on the hose. 

 

So, that is where I am at right now. I do have a few miscellaneous parts and gaskets. I also have 2 new head gaskets. Am thinking right now that low compression could be stuck ring or rings, issue with one or both valves. I can get a loaner leak down compression tester if need be. 

 

Where should I go from here? Should I pull the cylinder head off to inspect the cylinder and valves or focus on getting it to run a little and re-check the compression before tearing into the engine?

Haven't changed the engine oil yet. Should I go ahead and change it now or wait and see if I need to go into the engine? I actually have 5qt jug of oil with missing label. Either 5w 30 or 10w 40 that i can  throw in there for now and use it while trying to get it running and then flush it out. 

 

All advice on what to do is welcome!

 

Thanks Charrie

 

 

[sqrlgtr 4,007]

Hard to check compression on these old Kohlers because of the ACR (automatic compression release} design. If it where me and especially since you have head gaskets on hand I would remove head and clean everything up (decarb) good and adjust valves while I was at it. Even if it is wore pretty bad, they will run if you've got fuel, fire and compression. More than lik;y will require a carb cleaning/rebuild and I reccomend replacing all fuel line and filters. The last time I went through this the fuel pump was full of trash also. If your not worried about keeping absolutely original an electric fuel pump is a great upgrade.

[ri702bill 13,095]

True about Kohlers with the ACR - that runs by centrifugal force - and is open under 700 or so RPM. That is what gives the Kohler its distinctive "putt-putt-putt" sound at low idle.

Cleaning the inside of the fuel pump is an excellent recommendation - over time, the valves get crapped up and fail to seal properly..

[rmaynard 17,589]

First thing I would do is try starting it with starter fluid sprayed directly onto the carb. If it fires then you don't have spark or compression problems, just a gummed up fuel system from ethanol gas sitting in the carb, fuel pump, etc 

[Gasaholic 393]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

First thing I would do is try starting it with starter fluid sprayed directly onto the carb. If it fires then you don't have spark or compression problems, just a gummed up fuel system from ethanol gas sitting in the carb, fuel pump, etc 

I'd use carb & choke cleaner. Starting fluid (ether) doesn't need compression to fire off.. been there done that.. plus starting fluid aggressively scrubs away lubrication..  It'd only prove you have spark enough to light it off , and it don't take much... 

[rmaynard 17,589]

4 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

I'd use carb & choke cleaner. Starting fluid (ether) doesn't need compression to fire off.. been there done that.. plus starting fluid aggressively scrubs away lubrication..  It'd only prove you have spark enough to light it off , and it don't take much... 

Agreed if you were trying to run the engine on ether. But if you are only momentarily proving a fuel problem and not a spark, no harm will come in that short of a time. Just my opinion.

[Charrie 22]

Oh yes, I forgot reading about the ACR, thanks. 

Was planning on taking the head off todo a cleaning and inspection but was hoping to get it to run first if possible.  When I do remove the cylinder head, should I also hand lap the valves to clean the seats up a little? 

 

Yes, all new fuel lines and filter. 

Yes, pretty sure that the carb will need rebuilt. The choke cable seems to be stuck and i believe it's at the carb, not the cable.  From what I have read, it should have a Carter #30 on it.  I picked up a kohler float kit the other day that i think fits this carb. All it has is the bowl gasket, float, and needle valve. Not sure if that will be enough though. Kohler # 25-757-03-S 

 

As to fuel pump, It still has the original metal pump. I picked up 2 rebuild kits that I believe fit this pump but I have no idea what all of the parts are for. Hopefully I can find some info on rebuilding the pump. #230675

 

Po\O said that he couldn't get the engine to start. Yesterday when attempting to check compression, I couldn't get the starter to engage and used a screwdriver to jump out the solenoid. I need to find a wiring diagram for this tractor. 1985 would have been owned by Wheel Horse, not Toro,  I believe. The diagrams that I have found are Toro and have the Magnum or twin engines. 

 

I thinking this system uses direct battery voltage from the ignition switch to the coil? Points ground the negative side of the coil causing spark?

Does anyone know if this tractor uses a voltage regulator or an electronic rectifier? I haven't found either yet. But neither of those should affect the starting? Just the battery charging?

 

Thanks

Charrie

 

EDIT

I just found this file here on the forum

Kohler K341S-71371 with battery ignition and 3 amp unregulated charging system

Lights work off AC current from a second flywheel stator only when the engine is running

 

1985 416-8 model 31-16K801

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Charrie

[sqrlgtr 4,007]

7 hours ago, Charrie said:

As to fuel pump, It still has the original metal pump. I picked up 2 rebuild kits that I believe fit this pump but I have no idea what all of the parts are for. Hopefully I can find some info on rebuilding the pump.

I have rebuilt 4 of the original fuel pumps and they were all different on the inside but 3 of them looked alike on the outside. You just about have to take them apart to tell which one you have but they were all pretty straight forward to rebuild and they have been doing great ever since. I did have to go back through one of them because it seeped fuel between the pump body were it went together but a little more work on flattening of the two halves of pump body took care of it. I recommend Antique Auto Parts | Weymouth, MA | 781-335-8860 for fuel pump kits not the cheapest but have been the best in my opinion, and have always helped me if/when I had ????'s.