1987 310-8 key switch to plug match problem

[Armadillo👍 0]

The 310-8 was bought with a push button start in place of key switch. Decided to install key switch.  The 5 wire plug for the key switch doesn’t match the 103990 or the 103991 key switches available.

Facing the 5 wire plug for the key switch, with the connection for the start wire at the top, the wire for the rectifier wire is on the lower left of the plug.

The 1987/1988/early 1989 wiring diagram show the rectifier wire going to the 2nd row from the top start pin for the 103991 switch and not the bottom row like the 5 connector plug.

The accessory pin on the 103991 key switch goes where the rectifier wire in the plug is. 

The kohler m wiring picture below is the existing wiring from the kohler m14 to the first connector. The picture leaves out the 5 wire plug for the key switch but it does show the rectifier going to the middle row per wire diagram.

Pink wire hoes to voltmeter.


What am I missing? Or How do I find a key switch that matches the plug?

Clarifying questions welcome.

Edited 15 hours ago by Armadillo👍
Identify pink wire.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,393]

Calls for a 103991 switch so change the wires in the connector to match the Wheel Horse diagram. I will guess the accessory and rectifier wires are reversed so the rectifier wire is grounded when the switch is turned off. I do not know why they want it grounded other than to kill any stray voltage from getting to the magneto.

Do you know how to remove and install the Packard terminals from a plastic connector?

 

The Kohler diagrams show an optional diode in the Ground-to-Kill or magneto wire. Wheel Horse did not use that option so suspect reversing the 2 wires was their solution.

[953 nut 67,739]

@Armadillo👍, are you sure of the year of manufacture for your ?

You mentioned the 103990 and 103991 ignition switches. These are in no way interchangeable electrically. Does your engine have a battery powered ignition system or a magneto?   see the illustrations below. 

Under the seat there should be a sticker with a model number,  21-10K801    21-10K802  or 21-10K803 will have a battery ignition system and require the 103990 key switch.  Models 21-10K804   21-10K805 and 21-10K806 will be a magneto ignition and require the 103991 switch. The attached thread explains what happens if the wrong switch is used.

.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by 953 nut
fat finger

[Armadillo👍 0]

I don’t know how to remove the terminals. Instructions appreciated. 

That thought (to change the plug order) had occurred  to me to switch the wires but I was concerned about getting it wrong and frying the rectifier.

 The underseat number is 21-10k804 so I assume it is a 1987.

Confused I am. I believe It has a coil ignition meaning there is a coil over the spinning flywheel magnet that sends voltage to the spark plug.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Armadillo👍
Add info.

[953 nut 67,739]

3 minutes ago, Armadillo👍 said:

I was concerned about getting it wrong and frying the rectifier.

It is not the rectifier you need to be concerned about, it is the magneto if in fact your engine has a magneto..

Be sure of the ignition type and appropriate switch before you go changing anything.

The R terminal in the lower left would be the correct position IF you have a battery ignition system. The two drawings you have shown are not not the same. Please check the model number and ignition type before proceeding. Your hand drawn wiring layout is for a battery system.

Once we know what you are working with we can guide you through the process of eliminating the start push button.

[Armadillo👍 0]

Please excuse my ignorance on how the Wheelhorse forum works. 

Looking up magnetos it seems the Kohler m14 has a magneto system.

If so, then the plug is wired wrong. 
I’m wondering if the motor was changed and rather than doing a rewire someone just put in a press to start button that by passed the electrical system.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Armadillo👍

[953 nut 67,739]

4 minutes ago, Armadillo👍 said:

It must be a battery system. Is that the same as a magneto system?

The battery ignition system is wired differently than the Magneto system. If you used the 103991 key switch in a battery power ignition system nothin catastrophic would happen. In fact, if a 103991 (Magneto) switch was placed in a Battery Ignition tractor. With the exception of a frustrated person wondering why nothin works the outcome would be rather harmless.

In the OFF position the R and A terminals would be connected Ground, no big deal.

In the RUN position the I, A and R terminals would be connected, nothing would happen but no harm would come of it.

In the START position the S an I terminals would be connected, once again nothing would happen but no harm would come of it.

[Armadillo👍 0]

I have concluded the Kohler m14 is magneto system and the wiring for the key switch was is probably for a battery system.

It looks like the start switch plug needs to be rewired or the put start button back in.

The key switch was desired so the oil low warning light would work and deck would be prevented from being engaged while starting the engine.

So to prevent “magic smoke” ensuring no battery power gets to the magneto is paramount:

Edited 1 hour ago by Armadillo👍

[Gasaholic 386]

Also a side note - with an unknown key switch I *NEVER* trust the stamped letters in either the fiber backing or the terminals themselves - only way to be 100% sure a switch is properly labelled is testing with a DVOM to be sure of each key position making contact with which terminals...  (So I'd never recommend a used key switch if its working configuration is not known and confirmed) especially when wiring in a magneto ignition system - even a brief 12V injected to magneto wire (such as during switch transition between start and run) can smoke the ignition module. 

 

I'd start by finding a confirmed new switch for the magneto ignition system definitively replacing a 103991 magneto ignition switch , then it'll be easy enough for us to guide you on adjusting your switch plug terminals to match  (and to remove packard terminals from body is fairly easy with a jeweler's screwdriver to press in the tang for removal and then pry the tang back out for re-installation) It'd also be a good chance to test your terminals to be sure they still connect firmly with switch pins (if they're internally broken you'll overheat and melt the connector, and burn the switch, among other things that can happen)  

[clueless 3,430]

If you actually have an 1987 310 it has a kohler magnum 10 hp engine, it is not a battery ignition system. Also the M10 had to different charging system one like the M14 and the other is not but not by much. You either have a 15amp rectifier like the M14 or a 3amp dido charging system thus the different in the wiring system, I've owned both. You need to find out first which system you have then we can go from there. 

[Armadillo👍 0]

The 301991 switch is new. I did attempt to use it with the plug wired for a battery system. The motor turned over but no start. Didn’t see or smell any smoke. So magneto testing is possible.

Side note. The skirt is off because I thought it didn’t start due to timing and I removed the flywheel to check to see if the flywheel key had been sheared. No sheared key but fortunately I found there were 2 magnets that were loose. The magnets had marks on them from being loose and rotating around the stator. Reglued them per other info on Wheelhorse forum with the correct orientation. 
So plan is to rewire the plug to match the 301991 starter key, remove and  clean the terminals (I have jewelers screw drivers) and use volt meter to make sure no power gets to the magneto.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,393]

You can see the tab that you need to collapse to remove the terminal from the holder. It is on the back side of where the spade terminal is inserted.