keeps blowing out the condenser

[John c 178]

C101 with a K241 

 

So I transplanted another condenser from a different engine, It fired right up I thought all was good was gonna fine tune the carb as I was putting the machine back together, and a few minutes into it, the engine dies, no spark. Won't run with or without the condenser in the circuit. 

 

I don't have anymore condensers to try at the moment, I have a couple ordered though

 

Now the story that leads up to this is I'd found an out barn find close by and was going to make a grass cutter out of it. I put new spark plug, coil, points and condenser on it as part of the refurbishment project, ran it about an hour, it dies. I bring it back into the shop going over it to try and figure out what happened, cranking the engine I see sparks arcing between the engine block and belt cover right by the PTO, that leads me to finding the chassis ground jumper on the shaker plate mount broken, also decided to replace the rubber mounts while I was in it, I used the machined aluminum style, and also replaced the ground wire. It still wouldn't start, used a transplant condenser and it rans only a few minutes. 

 

Is it possible the engine mount swap somehow effects this, I can't see how, but ? 

 

Or was it the low budget amazon brand X tune up parts releasing gremlins in it ?   

[8ntruck 8,974]

Take a look at the points.  One of the functions of the condenser is to prevent the points from arcing when they open.  A bad condenser encourages the points to burn.

[WHX?? 56,916]

1 hour ago, John c said:

possible the engine mount swap somehow effects this

No but the motor still needs a good ground. Don't rely on solid mounts alone to accomplish that. 

Kudos on the decision to go to solid mounts tho. 

 

Check for spark and go after the coil (make sure it's getting 12 volts) Clean & reset the points and always have a new condenser on the shelf. 

Never hurts to have a spare coil on the shelf either. 

[ri702bill 12,274]

25 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Never hurts to have a spare coil on the shelf either. 

A known good coil at that....

[WHX?? 56,916]

1 minute ago, ri702bill said:

A known good brand new coil at that....

Course that don't mean much these days. 

[wallfish 20,062]

Guessing that coil does NOT have an internal resistor built into it.  That will burn out the points and or the condenser

[WHX?? 56,916]

12 minutes ago, wallfish said:

does NOT have an internal resistor

Strange thing there 'Fish when I got my 1045 it had a coil on it clearly labeled on it "use external resistor" and it always  started & ran great. I swapped it out for supposedly the internal kind but ever since then hard starting. Runs good just hard to no start. Stock non ACR big block.  

Edited Friday at 12:20 AM by WHX??

[Achto 31,933]

26 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Strange thing there 'Fish when I got my 1045 it had a coil on it clearly labeled on it "use external resistor" and it always  started & ran great. I swapped it out for supposedly the internal kind but ever since then hard starting.

 

On the other hand, remember Busty's first year at Pickett Jim ?? Would run fine for a while & then it would fall on its face. Ran fine with the voltage regulator unplugged. We ran to town & got a new internal resistor coil and it ran perfect even with the regulator plugged in. If I remember right the resistor had failed on the coil that was in it.

[John c 178]

  2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

A known good brand new coil at that....

Course that don't mean much these days. 

 

That's my thought exactly, the points, coil and condenser were all in the same "kit" and now I don't trust any of it. 

 

I've got a rotary brand condenser, and a set of kolher brand points inbound now, I need to find a decent quality coil now.  

[953 nut 66,740]

Is your condenser connected to the "-" side of the ignition coil along with the points?

 

This drawing was done by @Save Old Iron many years ago, good for visual learners.

[ebinmaine 79,198]

23 hours ago, John c said:

I put new spark plug, coil, points and condenser on it

 

Why the new coil?

Is the old one verified bad?

[John c 178]

yes the condenser is landed on the "-" terminal on the coil along with points lead. 

 

The old coil....I never gave it any thought I assumed the old coil probably OK, but the machine still had what looked like all it's original ancillary equipment, so I was refreshing things that deteriorate, fuel lines filters, fluids, repairs as needed, waking it up in a sense. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 79,198]

8 hours ago, John c said:

yes the condenser is landed on the "-" terminal on the coil along with points lead. 

 

The old coil....I never gave it any thought I assumed the old coil probably OK, but the machine still had what looked like all it's original ancillary equipment, so I was refreshing things that deteriorate, fuel lines filters, fluids, repairs as needed, waking it up in a sense. 

 

 

 

We run coils that are 50 or 60 years young without any issues. 

 

[pfrederi 20,702]

I would test your old coil..   Note secondary should read 6000 to 10000

 ohms

 

Edited 17 hours ago by pfrederi

[John c 178]

I'm learning about battery ignition systems these last couple of weeks, until now everything has been magneto powered systems for me 

[John c 178]

Paul, what is that spark checker thing shown plugged into the plug wire terminal

[John c 178]

how can you tell if a coil needs an external resistor or not ?

 

and then if it does, how do you determine what size to use, both ohms and watts ratings

Edited 17 hours ago by John c

[pfrederi 20,702]

1 minute ago, John c said:

how can you tell if a coil needs an external resistor or not ?

 

 

Kohler Coils had internal resisters usually marked as such.  

 

Not my picture but any spark tester can be used in that test.  I use the cheap neon one for the test.  The B&S tester is better but harder to use in this test

 

 

[953 nut 66,740]

48 minutes ago, John c said:

how can you tell if a coil needs an external resistor or not ?

 

and then if it does, how do you determine what size to use, both ohms and watts ratings

If you do the resistance check on the primary windings and it reads 1 ohm to 1.5 ohms then you need an external resistor.

Until 1973 when Chrysler went to electronic ignition they had an external ballast resistor mounted on the firewall. Ford and GM had their resistors in the wiring harness. You should be able to buy a Chrysler resistor at a good auto parts store or on line IF you need one.

Edited 17 hours ago by 953 nut
fat finger

[pfrederi 20,702]

 

If yo do get an external resister be careful where you mount it...they get hot and they do not like to get wet.

[John c 178]

reads 1 ohm to 1.5 ohms then you need an external resistor.

 

The drawing above shows primary winding reading 3-5 ohms, does that reading indicate an internal resistor is there? 

 

I've ordered me a coil with an external resistor, just be sure 

 

 

 

After school and before the air force, I worked in an auto parts store, I remember the Chrysler ballast resistors, that was in a time before advance, O'Rielly's, and the other chain stores, there was NAPA, and the independents. I knew some guys that drove mopars, they'd keep spares in the glovebox.

 

 

[953 nut 66,740]

1 hour ago, John c said:

drawing above shows primary winding reading 3-5 ohms, does that reading indicate an internal resistor is there? 

YES 

1 hour ago, John c said:

I knew some guys that drove mopars, they'd keep spares in the glovebox.

I was one of the many people who did that.

[John c 178]

So is there any simple tests or readings to determine if a condensor.....can still condense ?

 

 

[pfrederi 20,702]

1 hour ago, John c said:

So is there any simple tests or readings to determine if a condensor.....can still condense ?

 

 

Not really I believe it takes special equipment.  Disconnect it if tractor starts running then denser was bad.  

[Bar Nuthin 2,523]

14 hours ago, John c said:

how can you tell if a coil needs an external resistor or not ?

 

In my case, I made the determination after I fried the third set of points! Plus, the coil would get REALLY hot!

That's when I joined Red Square and learned that I needed a coil with an internal resistor.

Now I test them with a multimeter and check for resistance above 3.0 ohm

 

I've bought 2 tractors now, that had the wrong coils on them.