School me on the D160

[wfopete 19]

Looking at a D160. I plan to see it up close,  pictures show it to be in very nice condition.  I'm concerned about if later model decks and other attachments will work with these units.  Also what areas should I be checking close with this model?

 

[pfrederi 20,651]

D 160-200 attachments are unique to that series.  Decks, Blowers and plows from C 300/400 series will not fit There are two versions of D160 some came with Kohler K341  other with a twin onan.

[wfopete 19]

That's good to know.  Parts availability is important for the long term; are parts like finding hen's teeth?  Are there any reliability issues with these. Ideally I was looking at the 300 series but this D160 popped up on FB claiming it was restored.  Priced at $1800 so I don't want to go into this without some knowledge on the model.

[pfrederi 20,651]

Restoration  can mean a lot of things ranging from a quick wash and a bit of paint to overhauled engine and hydro.  Personally I would much prefer the Kohler, parts for that are plentiful Onans not nearly as much.  Onan has an electric PTO not sure about parts for that.  

  Big thing is to test the hydro.  Get it warmed up there may be a hydro temp gauge  to check that.  Then put it up against an immovable object and see if it will dig holes with rear tires.

 

What are you planning on using it for.  They are big heavy not the most maneuverable tractor  overkill for lawn mowing....

[wfopete 19]

Id rather stay away from the Onan too.   I'm not a hydro fan either but if unit is solid I could live with it.  I have not seen a D series up close so I can't appreciate what it is or isn't. What years was the D series produced?

 

 

Edited June 1 by wfopete

[pfrederi 20,651]

First year it was only an 18 hp and called 18.  1973 last year was 1981.  Not much changed over the years.  Some modifications to the motion control and parking brake setup.  The are heavy over 1000 lbs.  I would ask again what you are planning on doing with it.  I have a D200 but it has an FEL.  If you want to add a rotor tiller or 5' finish mower you have to add a rear PTO unit and 3 pt hitch.

 

D160 did not come standard with 3pt hitch or rear PTO they were an option.

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by pfrederi

[pfrederi 20,651]

I notice you have a Lawn Ranger...The front wheels and tires on most D series are the same size as your lawn rangers back tires....

[wfopete 19]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

I notice you have a Lawn Ranger...The front wheels and tires on most D series are the same size as your lawn rangers back tires....

 

LOL! Yeah, for sure they are a beast and more than I need just for mowing. Ugly as sin too (IMO).  

[ri702bill 12,220]

Also be aware that the D Series tractors were made in Belgium & imported here by / for WH. My FIL had a D250 that came with a 25HP Renault 4 cylinder liquid cooled car engine and car style clutch. A beast of a tractor.

[pfrederi 20,651]

16 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Also be aware that the D Series tractors were made in Belgium & imported here by / for WH. My FIL had a D250 that came with a 25HP Renault 4 cylinder liquid cooled car engine and car style clutch. A beast of a tractor.

 Only the D250s were made in Europe. D160-200 all made in US

[wfopete 19]

Getting back to the parts subject, are the normal wear and tear parts tuff to come by and what are the parts that require routine replacement or adjustments?

[pfrederi 20,651]

The hydro is essential the same piston to piston unit used in early C series.  Steering gear is a Ross unit that JD and some others used so you can find parts for it.  However bell crank tie rods etc are unique.

The splined coupler between engine and pump is very difficult to find if it fails.  The motion control linkage is a rube goldberg nightmare if it gets out of whack.

 

I like my D and it works well as base for an FEL  however D series are a real PITA to work on.  I swear they had a guy hold the hydro pump and then built the tractor around it.

 

You really need to test the hydro.  i had to redo mine after I bought it.  That was a long time ago and I was younger and more flexible.

 

In my book that is top dollar for a D160 unless it has the optional 3pt and rear PTO

[wfopete 19]

Thx. Went and checked it out today. Good looking unit. I drove/cut with it seemed fine (rebuilt deck beatings/blades).  Did not do the wall test... sorry.  I noted some oil around the breather and a few specks on the underside of the hood.  So it could be a clogged PVC valve or rings.  Oil pressure gauge was in the 40 psi range. 

[Retired Wrencher 6,718]

@wfopete this tractor looks really good. If I were you, I would do more research and really get to know the model. Just be aware that it has new paint doesn’t make it an excellent condition tractor. Sometimes repaint covers bad things. I would take my time and look underneath. I’m side to side from front to back. Just to make sure that you would be happy owning this. Just take your time with it. Don’t be in a rush if it’s sold move onto something else. Personally I’d take a B or C160 over that.

[wfopete 19]

Agreed on paint. Gotta be careful what it's covering up. All the fluids looked clean but oil is cheap. Tires are not new but are in good condition with plenty of tread. Seller wanted $1800, I told him I wanted test this hydro and he said no for fear of breaking something (can't blame him). So the $1800 number was dead.with me.  I told him I'd give him $1300 as is and he said "Deal".  I'll put some time on it tomorrow and see if I'm the proud owner of a $1300/1000lbs paper weight.

Edited Friday at 10:33 AM by wfopete

[wfopete 19]

Put a bit of time on the 160 and for now it seems "Ok". 

 

However I have a couple of questions: 

 

1. Any recommendations on where to source a crankcase breather rebuild kit for the B43 Onan?

2. In regards to the Electric PTO How tight is too tight?

3 Are there any modifications that would results in better clutch performance?

 

On it's maiden voyage my "New to Me" D160 didn't want to cut grass well unless it was a light cut.  The belts are new.  I went through a hay field at various cutting heights and speeds to evaluate where/what was the problem. I didn't detect any slippage from the belts in the form of squealing or burning but the pulleys slowed down the minute I got into a 2"-3" (or deeper ) cut.  The charging system is throwing more than 13.50V to the battery @ WOT so I'm hoping the clutch is seeing plenty of juice but I still need to check that.

 

Measured at .026"+ at the three measuring points.  Tightened all four plate nuts about 1/2" turn and closed the gap to .003".  Is .003" too tight?  I watched a few E-clutch YouTube videos and it seemed that the thought was tighter is better.  After I finished the clutch engaged and disengaged just fine but I did not cut with it yet due to heavy rain here. I'm thinking once it heats up the clearance may go away and it won't dis-engage well.  I don't know what clutch is on the 160; attached is a picture of a painted over label on it.  

 

 

 

[pfrederi 20,651]

WH didn't spec an air gap on the older Electric PTOs used on Chargers GT14.   For later PTO s on Vertical shaft engines they spec .005 as minimum.  Can't find anything about the PTO on your Onan

[Handy Don 16,748]

A good young battery can have 13.5 as its resting voltage. I’d be happier to see 14+ as the charging voltage. 

Can you check the voltage at the battery with the clutch activated and deactivated? (BTW, the current draw by the clutch is the same regardless of implement load.) Aim is to see if the clutch is drawing so much current that it’s lowering the voltage. 

 

[wfopete 19]

7 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

A good young battery can have 13.5 as its resting voltage. I’d be happier to see 14+ as the charging voltage. 

Can you check the voltage at the battery with the clutch activated and deactivated? (BTW, the current draw by the clutch is the same regardless of implement load.) Aim is to see if the clutch is drawing so much current that it’s lowering the voltage. 

 

 

 

I'll check it out again.  It's was a trick trying to hold the volt meter probes in place and the meter at the same time while running  

[Handy Don 16,748]

2 minutes ago, wfopete said:

 

 

I'll check it out again.  It's was a trick trying to hold the volt meter probes in place and the meter at the same time while running  

I USED to try to be 5-handed on stuff like this. When I got old I learned to set it up so I could do the readings hands-free. Safer too, since putting in the clutch makes blades spin! 

[pfrederi 20,651]

Older Electric PTOs were supposed to draw 3.5 - 4 amps

[wfopete 19]

While I have not got my my hands on my buddy's multi-meter (Mine can only handle a 10A max load), I did do some more testing but it all may mean nothing as the battery is only a little 340 CCA unit with roughly a 35AH rating. So probably just the minimum for this tractor.  Anyway the static voltage (engine off) of this battery is ~12.65v and at WOT ~13.65 with only the engine running.  I'm fine with the voltage of 12.65 but the charging voltage is a little light. Once I engage the E-clutch voltage starts falling into  ~13.30 area with the amperage reading dropping to the 3-4A so if the dash Amp gauge in correct the E-Clutch draw is in the ballpark.  Strangely, I get a much larger amp draw when I turn on the lights (5A+) compared to the E-Clutch's 3-4A.  I did take a few passes on my lawn this morning the cut seemed better but it doesn't count as the grass was still a wet.  So I'm off to get a fresh battery while the grass has a chance to dry out.  

 

 

                                 

 

[Handy Don 16,748]

Good news on the clutch current draw. Likely no shorts.

Yes, a low voltage does lessen the clutch’s “gripping” force somewhat but a volt or two isn’t going to be a huge factor. I’d be more concerned that the clutch faces are glazed. 

Incandescent PAR headlights can easily consume 5 amps--or more with a corroded or rusted contact in the circuit. 

Are you confident that ALL of the wiring and grounds are clean and offering no resistance. I’d pay particular attention to the connections to the regulator. 

The battery you have, especially if it is not having trouble starting the engine, might be the last thing I’d change. It seems adequate. 

[wfopete 19]

The clutch faces may very well be glazed based on the excessive clearance I found. Dang I really don't want to pull that apart right now.  The PO (seller) went though all the wiring with many new ring terminals for grounds.  I have not dug into the wiring deep but from what I've seen it all looks clean and secure; new wires with no splices or sub standard work that I've seen...yet.  I'll check the v/r tomorrow.  Of course all it takes is a freshly painted surface for a poor ground and the hunt is on. On a separate note; I did a compression check this morning and got a little over 90psi out of both Onan cylinders at wot. Have not checked the valve clearance yet. 

[Handy Don 16,748]

6 hours ago, wfopete said:

Of course all it takes is a freshly painted surface

Like many here, I learned this lesson the hard way. After that, I test the electricals as I go with assembly and, again like others, I've become a fan of direct-wired grounds for many circuits.