314A trans issue.. is it scrap?

[nyquil junkie 280]

This is the 314A I got in that auction I posted about elsewhere. I got the steering hammered out, figured out the starting issue, a few dirty grounds and a clutch safety and now it starts fine w the key.

 

So I go to take it for a good ride, and it started out ok but within 50 feet, it stopped, got slow, wouldn't move, grabbed a bit, jerked a little, moved along slowly.... would hardly pull itself up a grade. Ugh.

 

I was taking it to another driveway to take it apart and clean it anyway, so I see the little reservoir under the seat is nearly empty. I looked up the spec, filled it with 10w30 as its all I had, close enough until its changed. I worked it back and forth a while, some bubbles worked out, but its still as weak and a sick kitten. I jacked up the rear and let it run a while in rev and fwd. You can stop the wheels with your hands at full engagement. After about 15 min of shifting and running, its still barely moved the tractor at full engagement.

 

This is bout where my pay grade ends.  Is there something else I can try here?  I'm not gonna replace the pump or anything heroic, I can part it out or something if its shot but I had planned to sell it off as a whole working tractor.... oh well.

What are my options here....

 

 

 

[nyquil junkie 280]

A few pointless pics...

 

[ri702bill 12,155]

I have no history with the WH Automatics, but - 20 Bonus Points for securing the temp gas tank to the hood for the test ride.

[Bill D 2,867]

If you could score a good Eaton 1100 transmission it would swap right in with just 4 bolts and the brake and control linkages.  Just run a hose directly from the high pressure port for the hydraulic lift on the 1100 back into the filter. 

[kpinnc 18,287]

1 hour ago, nyquil junkie said:

What are my options here....

 

The 700 series pumps unfortunately have 1/3 the output torque of an 1100 series. They are more often neglected as 1100 series as well from what I have seen. 

 

You do have options to swap in another pump. As Don said an 1100 will bolt right in after you remove the transaxle adapter plate. 

 

Another option is to replace the entire transmission with an 8 speed. Zero modifications since it already has manual lift, and very few parts to make it work. 

 

The frame and sub parts were made to accept both so things like a clutch pedal and linkage along with the brake parts is all you need. And a shifter top cover to replace the DCL style panel. Very common parts. 

Edited Thursday at 08:29 PM by kpinnc

[JoeM 9,962]

You could drain the oil in the hydro and refill, I find they get contaminated with water. 

Drain plug (oring) 

 

[ineedanother 2,398]

Did you check to see that it wasn't a hub slipping on the axle?

[nyquil junkie 280]

Quote

drain the oil in the hydro and refill, I find they get contaminated with water. 

 

Where do you fill it...

[nyquil junkie 280]

1 hour ago, ineedanother said:

Did you check to see that it wasn't a hub slipping on the axle?

 

I'll look. The keys might be missing. Good idea.

[nyquil junkie 280]

4 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

The 700 series pumps unfortunately have 1/3 the output torque of an 1100 series. They are more often neglected as 1100 series as well from what I have seen. 

 

You do have options to swap in another pump. As Don said an 1100 will bolt right in after you remove the transaxle adapter plate. 

 

Another option is to replace the entire transmission with an 8 speed. Zero modifications since it already has manual lift, and very few parts to make it work. 

 

The frame and sub parts were made to accept both so things like a clutch pedal and linkage along with the brake parts is all you need. And a shifter top cover to replace the DCL style panel. Very common parts. 

 

Worst case I can part n tarp it, eventually Ill drag home more parts rollers for either of those swaps.

[JoeM 9,962]

9 hours ago, nyquil junkie said:

Where do you fill it...

through that top cap where you added the oil. i would even run some through while draining. Might have to do it twice. 

[Handy Don 16,632]

3 hours ago, JoeM said:

through that top cap where you added the oil. i would even run some through while draining. Might have to do it twice. 

If you choose to drain/refill, look closely at what comes out. If there is any sign of metal particles in the oil, consider it a very strong indication that the hydro was run without oil or that the tractor was forcibly pushed instead of moving under its own power (Eaton 700s do not have acceleration or bypass valves to accommodate being pushed). Both are hydro life-shortening. 

BTW, the tank on the top is for expansion and typically fills only when the hydro has heated up through use.

[JoeM 9,962]

33 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

look closely at what comes out.

this one was giving me trouble and the oil change worked

[Handy Don 16,632]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

this one was giving me trouble and the oil change worked

Good point. It is possible that there has been no damage and changing the oil will revive it--worth a try, for sure. 

[kpinnc 18,287]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

If you choose to drain/refill, look closely at what comes out.

 

This may have already been mentioned, but I do not see it. 

 

One of the primary differences between the 700 and 1100 series transmissions is that while the 1100 shares oil with the gearbox through the charge pump and filter circuits, the 700 does not. Draining the gearbox with the plug on the bottom of the gearbox will not affect the oil in the pump. The pump itself had a seperate and isolated oil supply. 

 

Look for the drain on the bottom of the pump itself. 

[Handy Don 16,632]

2 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Look for the drain on the bottom of the pump itself. 

Yep, excellent callout, KP.

And it is a PITA to get to and almost impossible to capture the draining oil. 

[nyquil junkie 280]

Getting that drain plug out nearly cause me to park it for scrap...jeeze.

I got it out, what came out was perfectly fine, clean oil. So I refilled it thru the top plug where that tank hooks to, worked all the bubbles out. Put it all back together.

 

It seems to go pretty well now, a lot better than it was. I dont have time today to take it on a run out in the field and up some hills but I think it'll be ok. It doesn't back up real fast but I imagine thats kinda normal.

 

It must have been 5 min to quitting time when they designed that drain plug location.

[Handy Don 16,632]

3 hours ago, nyquil junkie said:

It must have been 5 min to quitting time when they designed that drain plug location.

Really it was WH reverse engineering it to fit within the tractor and, with an adaptor, attach to the same final drive casing as the Eaton 1100. Compromises!

A worn motion cam plate or follower (or both) can prevent full range of input to the pump/motor control costing top speed in both directions. Worth a look (and not nearly as hard to get to)! (As designed, the hydro itself is direction agnostic--it’s the linkage that limits reverse.)

Edited 5 hours ago by Handy Don

[kpinnc 18,287]

5 hours ago, nyquil junkie said:

It seems to go pretty well now, a lot better than it was. I dont have time today to take it on a run out in the field and up some hills but I think it'll be ok. It doesn't back up real fast but I imagine thats kinda normal.

 

Sloppy linkages will rob alot from any hydro. The amount of travel at the cam is not very big. 

 

I thought I had a transmission going south until I found a loose connection in the control linkage. Replaced it and tightened everything up and it would spin the wheels if you weren't careful! Also had a much faster top speed. 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

A worn motion cam plate or follower (or both) can prevent full range of input to the pump/motor control costing top speed in both directions. Worth a look (and not nearly as hard to get to)! (As designed, the hydro itself is direction agnostic--it’s the linkage that limits reverse.)

 

Also a very good point! 

 

If you move the control lever even the slightest amount, the cam follower should do the same. Any slop at all is robbing performance.